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Author Topic: Vacutherm iDry input  (Read 29571 times)

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Offline GAB

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #380 on: November 08, 2019, 08:12:23 PM »
Anyone got an idea what their ROI is going to be minus your time of course which isn't free, but would be hard to account for?
If your time is free, I'll take 25 years worth.
GAB
W-M LT40HDD34 w/6' ext & SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #381 on: November 08, 2019, 09:16:15 PM »
somewhere in this post are some numbers. My numbers are a bit different as I purchased the kiln last year before they raised the prices. 
My time I know, as it is a minimum of 4 hrs to change a load in the kiln, and that isussually 2 of us.  If it is a lot of cookies then it is even more time, 6hrs
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline Just Right

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #382 on: November 12, 2019, 09:24:17 AM »
ROI. . . .two years at the current pace.  Stephen,  my kiln did the same thing with the drain.  But it was after 6 loads or so.  So now I take a blower and blow it out after every load.
If you are enjoying what you are doing,  is it still work?

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #383 on: November 12, 2019, 09:39:23 AM »
ROI. . . .two years at the current pace.  Stephen,  my kiln did the same thing with the drain.  But it was after 6 loads or so.  So now I take a blower and blow it out after every load.
JR - I take it the solenoid is open when you do that? I think I will be 4 years to pay off the kiln. I am in a rental industrial unit. 
I had to buy a new drain pump yesterday as the float was all gumbed up with what I think is pine sap, in the water from inside the kiln. I have soaking in varsol now to see if it frees up the float. Then I will have a spare. It has a 2 year garauntee, but I do not feell right trying to have it  replaced all gumbed up. ;D
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline Just Right

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #384 on: November 19, 2019, 11:08:02 AM »
Stephen,  No when mine stopped up it was from all the saw dust that ends up on the floor that gets washed into the drain.  Took it all apart and just washed it out the clear it.  Then started to blow the saw dust out the door in between charges.  Everything is working.  
If you are enjoying what you are doing,  is it still work?

Offline japarker4

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #385 on: November 20, 2019, 11:43:37 AM »
We get the "how much do people charge?" question a lot, so we put a calculator on our website based on what we hear customers charging for drying services. Operating costs are $100-120/week by the way. 

Here's the link: https://idrywood.com
Scroll down the page a bit. 

Haven't been on here in a while.  Hope you're all doing well.

Jim

Offline boonesyard

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #386 on: January 02, 2020, 03:35:12 PM »
How's it going with everyone's iDry out there?? We just fired up the 5th load in the iDry, and thought I'd recap what we've experienced. 

Our prior 4 loads have been mixed species and moisture. The results have been very good, and the drying times are impressive. I had a load of 12/4 red oak slabs and 3ea 9"x9"x13' mantles for 14 days on low power, and another 7 days on high. The load had air dried for 2 months and turned out excellent with an mc right at 8% for the slabs. The mantles were down to 20% and are currently in a mixed load on high. We've mixed 4/4 yellow poplar, silver maple and white ash with very good results and the 1 week/inch works. We just did an interesting load of 3/4 live edge black walnut. The architect is going to puzzle it together on a large great room project with a stained birch backing. The load was very time consuming to cut as all logs/branches were between 5-8" dia, and not straight. With all of the sapwood in this project, I told the customer drying it flat would be a crap shoot. He said go for it and in 5 days, the 1250 bf load right off the saw was from 6-7.5%. There were a few boards that had a slight cup, but most were very flat, again impressive. 

We're using a recycle system for the vacuum pump water. What we've learned is that the water in this system has to be changed out every other kiln load. Not sure what it is, but the recycle water gets black and has a very strong rotten egg smell after about 2 loads, nasty. I thought this was for seal water only required for the vacuum pump and didn't think it was exposed to the kiln elements. If someone from idry jumps on, would like to hear the workings as to how that seal water gets contaminated? All-in-all, it's very easy to operate and doing a great job. Would like to hear how it's going with others.


    

Loading and baffeling mixed lengths and shapes is is more voodoo than science  :D.   
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Offline TKehl

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #387 on: January 06, 2020, 11:35:48 AM »
Not from I-Dry, but I worked tech support at a company that made liquid ring vac pumps like that.  

No the seal water isn't in the kiln, but the seal water is in contact with the vapor stream coming out of the kiln.  Most will pass through as vapor, but some will condense in the colder seal water causing the issue you see.  Nature of the beast.  

Still the best option for a vac pump out there by a mile.  Anything else either has a premature failure or is very expensive.  Liquid rings are perfect for this as they are cheap, reliable, and handle vapors very well.   ;)
In the long run, you make your own luck Ė good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #388 on: January 06, 2020, 12:20:10 PM »
I had vacuum pump controller fail just before Christmas. I left on

 vacation for 2 weeks. I called IDRY last week and a new part was sent, I installed on Saturday. I had to wait until this morning for Brian to program the unit. The kiln fired  right up with the new programming.
Great customer service! 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline boonesyard

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #389 on: January 07, 2020, 12:16:12 PM »
Not from I-Dry, but I worked tech support at a company that made liquid ring vac pumps like that.  

No the seal water isn't in the kiln, but the seal water is in contact with the vapor stream coming out of the kiln.  Most will pass through as vapor, but some will condense in the colder seal water causing the issue you see.  Nature of the beast.  

Still the best option for a vac pump out there by a mile.  Anything else either has a premature failure or is very expensive.  Liquid rings are perfect for this as they are cheap, reliable, and handle vapors very well.   ;)
Thanks for the response. At least I know that it's working as it should.
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #390 on: September 22, 2020, 09:00:38 PM »
Wonder how everyone is liking the kilns now that they've been out for a year or more.
Liking Walnut

Offline TreadsActual

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #391 on: September 24, 2020, 08:00:52 AM »
My first bunk is cooking now. So far so good. In a few weeks, Iím planning on doing a full write up for the forum regarding purchase, delivery, install, and my first couple batches.
iDry vacutherm kiln, Leadermac six head 12Ē moulder, Taylor clamp carrier, 25Ē Grizzly planer, Hyster forklift, SawStop ICS

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #392 on: September 26, 2020, 08:28:52 PM »
Wonder how everyone is liking the kilns now that they've been out for a year or more.


I have had mine for1.5 years. It took until this August to learn the kiln and and about drying lumber and slabs, and I still have lots more to learn. 
A lot of my learning came from the FF and the people on here.
I now am charging enough to make money. I am booked until December.
The best thing I did was to build drying sheds, and when people call and ask about the  service, I tell them to get their wood here to get it in line to be dried. I build bundles of wood 26" high so that I can rotate different bundles of like thickness of wood in and out of the kiln. I am building another drying shed in the next month to accomadate more lumber into the sheds, which are really pre dying the wood, which means less time in the kiln. I am then assured they are dried in the time span I have charged people for. I run 2 week cycles for hard wood and 7 day cyles for softwood, 6/4 and under will dry in that time. Over 6/4 is a minimum of 4 weeks in the kiln, hard or soft wood,  and big old Walnut 10/4 is in for 6 weeks or more. Nothing leaves my shop over 8%.  
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #393 on: September 26, 2020, 08:59:36 PM »
I'm watching and listening. Thanks Stephen1.
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #394 on: September 26, 2020, 09:45:42 PM »
Yes, thanks for the real world drying times.  I had a customer ask me today when I was going to buy one.
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Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyíre burned, and you canít fix them.  Donít burn the cookies.

Offline samandothers

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #395 on: September 26, 2020, 11:05:22 PM »
Yes, thanks for the real world drying times.  I had a customer ask me today when I was going to buy one.
And your answer?  ;D

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #396 on: September 27, 2020, 08:18:26 AM »
My times are based on Green off the mill. Also because I am a custom dryer, I usually have mixed thickness loads, 4/4 up tp 10/4. If I was only drying my own wood, I wood not have anything over8/4. I would also saw better grade of logs to complement the 8/4. This kiln really does turn out nice lumber with very little movement and next to none end checking. I also believe good wood in, good wood out. "Character" wood out. I consider drying the LE slabs as a big experiment for us all.  The only kiln that is faster is an RF kiln, but the price was out of my league. They want $250,000 for for a North American made RF Kiln. They have their issues especially in the Oak and Walnut types of wood as it is dried too fast, resulting in lots of honeycombing. 
My next experiment for drying thick slabs is to put them in the kiln for a 2 week cycle, they are then sterilized, I will pull them out and turn the large fans on them in the shop. My RH in the shop is kept at 35%. It will help stabilze the moisture and continue drying them. The fan idea came from reading YH. I will then put the bundle back in the kiln and hopefully finnish them in 2 weeks for a total of 4 weeks, not 6 or 8
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

Offline boonesyard

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #397 on: October 04, 2020, 10:07:24 AM »
Stephen1, 
November will be 1 year with ours. We are still learning and tweaking, but our time frames and values are very similar to yours. Air dry, air dry, air dry. We have only dried hard wood, and if we air dry to less than 30%, we don't end up with the moisture pockets and it tends to not stall out as often. Our biggest challenge is all of the large oak and walnut slabs we handle (10/4 to 12/4 and 30"+ wide). We really struggled with moisture pockets and stalling until I tried Yellowhammer's advice of letting it rest. Now it's an automatic for anything over 9/4. We run the temp at 135 for 3-4 weeks, pull the pac and let it rest in the shop with fans, then put it back in and finish at 160 for 2 weeks. Another big help has been monitoring the amount of water coming from the drain. We have a heavy garbage bag set up in the drain that catches all the drain water every 24 hr cycle. This has really helped in determining when its time to change things up.

The other thing to really consider is the actual BFtg you're able to get in it. All of the pacs are on 12' pallets to make loading and unloading easy, but they take up 8" in kiln height. The other thing we've done is we add another pallet on top of the pac with about 3,000 lbs of granite slabs on top to keep the drying process flat. This takes up about another foot of elevation. This drops the kiln capacity about 35%, but the quality and ease of handling has made it worth it for us. Also, very seldom, do we have runs that are all the same length. Everyone's situation is different, just things to consider. 
LT50 wide
iDRY Standard kiln
JD 4520 w/FEL
lots of support equipment and not enough time

"I ain't here for a long time, I'm here for a good time"

Offline Stephen1

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #398 on: October 04, 2020, 04:48:25 PM »
That is a lot of capacity I would have to give up. I made blocking  out of 1/4" plywood with 4 breezewood stickers nailed and glued to each side. Just thick enough to get the forks in and out. I use them between the packs. No weight on top yet, I was debatting on making concret slabs with wire hook for my fork lift to sit on top. I am not convinced it will help as I have found if the wood is going to move, there is not enough weight to hold down some of these 10/4 slabs. I have seen Sugar Maples put on the bottom  lift 2 bundles. High grade logs produce high grade slabs, little to no movement. Low grade urban logs produce a lot of movement, and since I do not have to plane them, I have the customer sign the waiver which tells him all this. 
 I tried the pallets, but mine were not strong enough to carry 1 end stacked with cookies or smaller size wood to fill the kiln.  I seem to get enough long slabs to start every pac. I did try putting a row of 4/4 between the 10/4 and notice the slabs on each side of the 4/4 were dry compared to ones above or below the 10/4. Now to convince people to use 4/4 lumber and I'll be all set. 
I agree on letting the big slabs come out to "rest". I did not turn the fans on the wood yet as my shop sits at 35-40% RH and I didn't want to case harden the shells. After putting the resting slabs back in, I added 10 gallons of water to the floor of the kiln and changed the drain cycle to 48 hrs. It helps condition the outer shell. 
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

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Re: Vacutherm iDry input
« Reply #399 on: October 04, 2020, 09:01:10 PM »
3,000 lb or more weight stacks will definately help flatten packs of wood, if they are stacked to take advantage of it. I mill many 2-3/8" and 3" thick boards of many species and have seen major improvements in drying wood with significant weight stacks.  Once, in the last year, I skipped putting a weight stack on top of a load of live edge slabs and it was a complete mess when I pulled if from the kiln.  I ruined several high dollar slabs, twisted up a few others, and will never do it again.

The boards should be stickered so that their cupped edge are contrary to each other, ()()()(), they must be stacked so that they are load bearing on each other, and not interspaced between stickers.  They should also be stacked bow opposite each other (smile up/smile down).  They should be stacked so that their deflection force for cup, bow or twist must not be compounded by other boards, but rather it should be canceled out.  Stacking boards like this: ))))))) is a no no, it simply multiplies the deflection force because all the boards are acting in unison and will cancel out the force of the weight stacks.  They all take the same shape, much like Pringles in a can.  Since most boards are stickers as soon as they are sawn, and assuming they are flat coming off the mill, the way the boards were sawn must be evaluated by the people doing the sticking so that their tendency for movement is anticipated and thus stickered correctly.    

The problem with having one bad board lifting all those above it is that when it does, it causes sympathetic bow on all the boards that it jacks up.  So one bad board can ruin a half a dozen, or more, as it moves.  So its important to make sure that all the force of the weight stack is being put to good use.

If the board is a customer center cut slab right through the pith, then  it is sawn poorly, and it will certainly try to cup, but it will do so because it not sawn correctly, not because it is of lower quality.  However, even then, a good weight stack will help it.

  

   
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it wonít roll, its not a log; itís still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, theyíre burned, and you canít fix them.  Donít burn the cookies.


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