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Author Topic: Wide Mill Build  (Read 5170 times)

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Offline charles mann

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Wide Mill Build
« on: November 20, 2018, 07:53:50 PM »
Well, I started the welding on my frame and have all the bunks welded in. Somewhere in the process, my beams on both sides sagged 11/16" from center, tapering to nothing at each corner. 
During the welding, i kept checking the level, and on a 4' level, everything was within the bubble. I guess i shouldn't have welded the bunk beams in completely until i rechecked everything with the laser level. 

Any suggestions on how to get the center raised back up the 11/16" deviation? 

Beams are 2"x8"x1/4" 20' long and bunk beams are 2"x6"x1/4" 6' wide and running a few beads on the main beams did NOT draw it enough.

I put a few heavy tacks on the end cap bunk beams, then started on 1 end, working my way to the other end. Could that have caused the drastic deviation sag in the middle? 
I had the center supported with 2 6"x12"x4" cinder blocks, 1 on each side with a R/R cross tie on top of the blocks. I planed the cross ties down with an electric hand planer, to where all 6 support points were level, using the laser level. I screwed a 2x4, 8" long, on each side of each support point, to jig it in the vertical position, which that worked, just not a sag at the center support point. 

I was thinking of 2 options, use a cutoff wheel and split the 2x8 beam on ea side of the center bunk beam, which I'm not a fan of doing that. next option, is putting an axle under it, roll it out from under my shed, level the blocks again, flip the frame over and put 3/4" spacer under each corner, put 2 cross ties on the frame, and push down on the frame with my tractor loader arms. 

the last option is to get a couple porta-power cylinders, made for auto body/frame working, and put a support tower in the center and apply 10 tons of pulling pressure  from 1 end, then move to the other end. 

I could also have the machine shop machine me out a taper shim, going from deflection, to zero and tack in and drill new holes to bolt my track down.

Oh, when putting my bunk beams in, i used a piece of 1/2" flat bar, 2" wide, 6" long to support the beams and leveled on the vertical and horizontal position, then put small tacks and confirmed level before putting a few more heavier tacks. 

During the welding process, i put 1-1.5" welds on each beam and alternated, for ex. end cap bunks, short welds at top of, then going to other side, and welded bottom, went to the other side of the same bunk, and instead of welding the top on the same side as before, i started at the top on the other side, then bottom on the opposite side. I then did the same process on the complete opposite end of the frame, then moved to the center, and then went back to the starting end, but moved to the next bunk inward from the end, giving each bunk beam time to cool down before going back to same end. 
Once each bunk beam had their 4 small welds, i repeated the process again. It took me 2 days to weld the from up, just to find out i have a sag in the center. 

Sorry for this being long winded, and somewhat out of order, but hopefully it makes enough sense that someone here can suggest a way to get the sag out of the center, without having to buy all new metal and start over from scratch. 

Also, how much deflection is acceptable in a 20' x 6' 4" frame? 1/32", 1/16"? I know zero is best, but without a jig, what is acceptable?
Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
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Offline thinwater

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2018, 09:36:31 PM »
How is it supported and will the ends drop back down if you only support it in the middle? 

Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2018, 09:49:57 PM »
How is it supported and will the ends drop back down if you only support it in the middle?
A totel of 33 grade 8 7/8x14 bolts. 
22 5 bolts on the main beams and 11 7 bolts on the bunk beams. 
Negative, that is how i found out i was warped. It was teetering on the center support tie. I put nearly 3000# of ties on 1 end and used my loader arms and picked the front of my tractor up. It lifted the end with the ties. 
If i had a concrete slab, i could possibly anchor 1 end down and try to flex the opposite end with my tractor. 
If i roll the frame out, i could, as explained previously, use my gooseneck and lift the front, lowering the back onto 1 end of the frame, and use loader arms on the other end, to try and bend the frame. 
Temple, Tx
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Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2018, 09:55:54 PM »
I went down both sides of the frame with a 1/2 thick 2 wide flat bar, a 3/16 2x2 angle a cut off section of 3/8 2x2 angle and small piece of 1/4 flat plate and checked the height deflection, starting at center, working my way to each end, and on each frame beam. I would use a combo of pieces steel pieces to estimate my deflectionand wrote on the beam, what it was and marked the location of ea measurement. 
Temple, Tx
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Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2018, 10:00:04 PM »
Off subject for a sec. 
A couple yrs ago, we had a fire fighting heli down near you in sarasota, fl. 
@thinwater 
Temple, Tx
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Offline thinwater

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2018, 10:11:06 PM »
I am sure there will be better ideas, but I would cap the beams with a 2x2 and shim between it and the big beam so it sits flat. Maybe weld a 2" wide 1/8" flat bar over the joint on the side to cover the shims then sit your track on top of the new 2x2. 

You could make shims for next to nothing by cutting them out of thin plate, like 20 GA and some 1/4" bar to fill the big gaps fast. Stack them every 6-8" between the bars. 

I am not a welder or fab guy, but I will rig up anything to make it work. 

Offline thinwater

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2018, 10:16:07 PM »
Off subject for a sec.
A couple yrs ago, we had a fire fighting heli down near you in sarasota, fl.
@thinwater
I worked the fires here in 98 when 1/2 of the state burned (Retired LEO). I watched the big copters drop many bags of water less than 100 yards from my post on I-95 and saved a hotel that was about to be taken as the forrest fire got right up to it.

Offline staker

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2018, 11:37:20 PM »
Could you flip it over and use sting or piano wire for a line and either use torch to heat up middle areas where the cross members are or weld beads on bottom so it can deflect back.

Offline Crusarius

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2018, 07:37:54 AM »
so I may have missed something. Are the main beams bowed and the bunks flat? or did the entire trailer bow?

There really is no easy way to fix that. how bout some pictures?

Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 08:41:09 AM »
so I may have missed something. Are the main beams bowed and the bunks flat? or did the entire trailer bow?

There really is no easy way to fix that. how bout some pictures?
Yes, the whole frame is bowed upwards on the ends, on both sides. 
I really dont think pics will help. The sag cant be seen. There was no sag until i started welding up the center and 3 on ea side of center bunk beams. 
I agree, no easy way. I could grind the welds off of ALL the bunks and take the main beams to the machine shop and have him straighten them out and try it again. 
We got release from the northern cali fire, so i decided to take every time off and work on the build. 
I was hopping i could start on the carriage, but not till i straighten the frame out. 1 problem at a time. 
Temple, Tx
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Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2018, 08:43:38 AM »
Could you flip it over and use sting or piano wire for a line and either use torch to heat up middle areas where the cross members are or weld beads on bottom so it can deflect back.
Not sure if my dinky lil regulators will have the berries to run a rosebud tip for the time itll take to bring both sides up to temp. But i wont know if i dont try
Temple, Tx
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2018, 08:46:37 AM »
I hate to say it but that is still good steel. Cut that up into usable pieces elsewhere and build a new deck. if the deck is bad the mill will never be good.

Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2018, 08:55:18 AM »
I hate to say it but that is still good steel. Cut that up into usable pieces elsewhere and build a new deck. if the deck is bad the mill will never be good.
I was thinking the same thing, i know i can make 4 extensions out of the frame. 
Im gonna try to get the frame to within 1/16 on 4 corners and every bunks center and weld junction, before spending another $1200 on steel. 
Temple, Tx
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Offline Crusarius

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2018, 09:09:44 AM »
so your going to cut it into 4' lengths then weld it all back together flat? that will work. going to be a ton of work. 

Knowing that I could use the steel elsewhere I would just drop the cash and not have to waste all the time, effort, and consumables trying to fix it.

Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2018, 09:35:14 AM »
so your going to cut it into 4' lengths then weld it all back together flat? that will work. going to be a ton of work.

Knowing that I could use the steel elsewhere I would just drop the cash and not have to waste all the time, effort, and consumables trying to fix it. 
I dont care about consumables, and my time and efforts are free. As of of know, only thing that has happened is, i dropped a bunk beam onto my finger, posdibly breaking it, and busting the blood vessels and filling that glove finger with blood. 
Temple, Tx
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Offline Woodpecker52

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2018, 10:01:07 AM »
I would recommend that you look at how woodmizer builds its trackway system sections  for the LT15.  They are a little over six feet boxed with bolts and flanges on outside and pins on inside to keep everything tight and level.  It may be that you can cut in sections and take the bow out in smaller sections without starting over, Easier to solve the problem in smaller sections. Any way anything that is long whether wood, steel, or even stone is going to flex and sometimes steel is the worst.
Woodmizer LT-15, Ross Pony #1 planner, Ford 2600 tractor, Stihl chainsaws, Kubota rtv900 Kubota L3830F tractor

Offline John S

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2018, 10:09:53 AM »
Check out Matt Cremona on YouTube.
2018 LT40HDG38 Wide

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2018, 10:50:26 AM »
Pictures would still help to see exactly how it is constructed.  I don't have a clear picture in my head. 

I got lucky with my build.  I made 16' sections from 2x4x, a piece of C channel every few feet supporting a 2x3x angle track.  First section perfect.  Second section has about 1/8" sag.  With the log bunks far enough spaced, the wood sags to match.  Crude, but it works.  My wood is within 1/16" along it length.  It is rough cut, after all!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2018, 10:53:44 AM »
Check out Matt Cremona on YouTube.
Iv watched his vids 3x and have his plans. I went to 2x8, instead of the 2x6 he used for his frame main beams, to give me a 2 clearence underneath, for add-ons later, so i dont have to bore a hole in the bunk beams, or put hyd cylds and lines, or push/pull rods below the the lowest deck depth. 
I also didnt buy extra steel and diamond the frame like he did when he went to weld the frame together. 
I was thinking of ordering new material and use the existing frame as a jig and shim under the low spots and build a new frame. 
Temple, Tx
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Offline charles mann

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Re: Wide Mill Build
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2018, 11:42:07 AM »
pics

how I'm storing my raw material


 



 



 



 



 



 



 

Temple, Tx
Fire Fighting and Heavy Lift Helicopter Mech
Helicopter and Fixed Wing Pilot


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