I just got home with a 2011 LT35HD - I need your counsel on how to succeed.

[YellowHammer]

Sounds like a fun job.  Do the walnut last. :D  

When sawing shorts, safety is an issue both for personnel and for the mill, as people have said.  If they are too short, they may fall into the mill frame, and damage the hydraulic lines (been there, done that).  Also, off bearers have a tendency to get real close to things they shouldn't be on the mill, especially  when lifting boards off shorts, even stepping into and over the loader, into the mill frame, just places where flesh and bone shouldn't be.  So just be aware.  Its all fun until someone's finger gets smashed and explodes like a package of Ketchup.

[WDH]

Howard,

Just starting out, an irregular, gritty, walnut stump can lead to some heartaches for the sawyer.  That is one of the more challenging things to cut with a sawmill. 

[doc henderson]

Mike think of this as being a graduate student, getting paid while you get your education!!!

[Magicman]

I absolutely recommend sawing the Walnut stumps.  That way you will know exactly why not to ever fool with sawing stumps.  Hourly rate including pressure washing plus blades.    

[WV Sawmiller]

   I checked my mill this morning and the rails were about 25" apart at the clamp so the 30" stumps will fit across them. I suggested chainsawing them down because I don't know if you can Bibby them down that well with the mill. It could be done but you might have to make octagons and such while 2 straight cuts with the chainsaw would make it narrow enough to fit.

   I prefer to do a test cut at home on projects like this before I embarrass myself in front of a customer. I do enough of that anyway. At first I would use up some of my buckeye for experiments such as making fence rails or post or such. 

   There is definitely a market for 30" X 2'X 2" walnut pieces for craft workers. Even cookies that size will sell. People want them for end tables and such. I was looking at a walnut crotch about that size in my pile which is probably going to be my next project. I think I got it from a friend who was just cleaning the debris from when he had 3-4 big walnuts cut in his yard. 

[trapper]

With only one sharp blade I would not attempt to start the job.  Woodmizer has free shipping on blades right now.

[burtle]

On that first job you're going to be wore out moving 40 logs around by hand!! Even If they are small in diameter. That'll be heck of a workout all alone.


I'm wondering what the first guy is expecting on price. I'd charge no less than $100.00 per hour on that job. But that's just me.


You have two potential clients within what a week or two? That is a plus!!

[MikeySP]

I read all the responses several times. Thank you all for the care,  warnings, wisdom by experience, and encouragement. Doc, I love that philosophy... a paid student says I!

Ok, 100 BF per hour is a good realistic number as I would rather under promise and opver deliver, vs stressing because I am miles off the mark. So, a 16" small end log x 13ft long is about a 145BF International, so I will figure about? 1.5 hours for said log, and hopefully do better. Do you think I should draw out a cut plan on the end of the log as I have seen in some videos? Or is that only for instruction and not for production ?

With all the sawing I have been doing here, I can already see the benefit of having helper who is getting the next log ready to roll onto the arms and offbearing. Of course, with the larger sized posts and any thicker slabs, I will have to help offload those larger ones. On a good note, larger poasts/cants, mean more board footage with less cuts. 

I have about 15 of the 4 degree blades and 15 of the 10 degree blades. Not one of each I am glad to hear the 4 degree blades are good. I did brake one yesterday. That is a violent event. 

WV Sawmiller, if we jig up a holder for the walnut stumps...  when you say have him sut the stump log to 24 x 30 do you mean to rip one side to make a 24" in the shape of a "D" or to cut both sides so it has two apposing flat sides?

Walnut last.... noted

If we cut a log into live edge slabs, do we sticker the log back together off the ground 8" and let it sit... making the scrap edge the rain/sun screen? I have seen pics of this, but do not know if this is a long term air drying solution or just a few weeks?

If he is going to air dry all the lumber out of doors and he wants some 8/4 and large cants to further rip down later, what do you tell a customer to have on hand for stacking? 8" blocks, plywood ripped into stickers, and sheet metal long enough to cover the wood? Since these logs have sat for six months, do I need to have some end covering solution to prevent splitting?

He is planning to stack the boards/cants where we saw it and let it set there until further notice.

Thank you all again, very much. 

Goodnight. 

-Mike

[MikeySP]

I did have more questions Jedi Masters... 

How does a new guy know when his blade is dull? 

How does new guy know when his speed is not too fast, nor too slow.... but just right! Just like the porage in Goldie Locks.

Thank ye, says I! You men have been amazing! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

-Mike aka Grasshopper  :D

[Southside]

Use the Force Mike, use the Force to tell. A band beginning to dull will take more force to enter and make a cut, you can see it when the band first enters the cut, it sort of stalls forward momentum for just a micro moment. Another way is to monitor the sawdust. A sharp band produces "chunky" sawdust that flows right out of the chute, one getting dull will make more of a flour sawdust and more will remain on the boards and it will tend to float in the air more by the chute and guide wheel. You want to see a nice, distinctive flow of sawdust exiting the band that is holding a pattern as it enters the sawdust chute right at the non moving guide wheel to know the band is sharp and speed is not too fast.  

Boards with lots of sawdust build up are a sign of too much speed and or a dull band that can't clear the dust away. 

Wavy boards, with the exception of twisted grain, are a sign of a quite dull band. 

If you see the band jump or dive upon entering or exiting a cut it's dull. 

Also the sound will change, listen to a sharp band so you commit to memory that pitch, when it is dull the sound changes, can't explain it any better than that but you will be able to hear it. 

[YellowHammer]

 

Basically, as soon as the cut starts suffering, swap the band out, assuming it was cutting well when it was put on.

Closely watch the rooster tail of sawdust coming from the cut.  Think of it as a needle on a meter, if the trail of sawdust is perfectly straight, the band is cutting flat, if the trail is high or low, or twitches relative to the band, then the band isn't cutting flat and the sawdust and band aren't in the same plane.  

Jack your speed up until the engine loads up, use all your horsepower, as faster is better as it keeps the band cooler, it removes sawdust better and the way to tell real time while you are cutting the board that your speed is correct is to watch the sawdust.  It allows real time feedback while cutting, allowing speed corrections instantly.

Also, look at your Debarker cut as a reference line.  The band wavering high and low means waves.

[WDH]

(Self Confession:  I tend to run my blades too long after they are dull.....).

(Note to Self:  Don't run the blade too long after it is dull.....).

[WV Sawmiller]

   Yes, the blade will tell you when it is tired/dull. Also if you see any sign of a blade out of set (lines about an inch apart the length of the board) I'd replace it.

  IMHO $100/hr may be a little high for your part of the country, mill size and experience level. Good luck in getting that. I remember member Brad used a guy to saw some big ash logs at that rate and I think he had an LT50 and Brad said was not pleased with the cost/return. The question I would ask is "Would I be satisfied paying this rate for this yield if I were the customer?" If you have more customers than you can handle a higher rate is warranted to help thin the crowd to a measurable amount.

  Good luck.

[doc henderson]

So your adventure continues.  The blade you broke yesterday was a great experience.  you will always jump a bit, but when you start gritting you teeth just before it happens cause you know you should be changing a band, then you are getting it.  If it happens on the job, act like that is normal, and it is, cause we have all done it and learned from it.  If you are charging by the hour and you end up having a "cluster" you can tell the customer you did not charge him for two hours that were on you. Better than undercharging and everything going well and you are then under paid.  The consumer will note your honesty and willing to work with them and pass that on to his neighbor who is your potential next customer.  Talk to @Magicman about trying to get too much from a band.  May the Forest be with you! 

[doc henderson]

there are videos on you tube for stacking, stickering and covering slabs. timbergreen simple solar cycle kiln, and you can have your customers watch it if they are stacking and stickering there own wood.  walnut should be shaded by a cover so you do not get bleaching by the sun, or in the case of maple, oxidation.  Some feel air dried walnut has better color.

[MikeySP]

Very good. Thanks for that timbergreen Simple Solar. I watched them. I ahev seen several videos on stacking slabs, but I was not sure about the permanency of the stacks... meaning is this the final spot, or was this for so much time, then it needed to be...?

I will try to watch some more and read some more this evening. I need to sweat a little more and not come running to the Wizards every time an ORK presents himself

[Southside]

I agree that $100 / hour is too high, the customer will not get that in value, you may work that hard but as was pointed to in the example Brad mentioned it won't happen a second time.  Proper equipment and BF sawing fixes that issue.  I can easily justify over $100 / hour with decent wood and the 70, but if I put that number out there the phone won't ring, so instead I tell the customer to have a loader there to keep logs fed to the beast and have several pairs of hands to deal with the lumber that is coming off of the mill and I saw BF rate and earn more than the $100 / hour.  

[WV Sawmiller]

WV Sawmiller, if we jig up a holder for the walnut stumps...  when you say have him sut the stump log to 24 x 30 do you mean to rip one side to make a 24" in the shape of a "D" or to cut both sides so it has two apposing flat sides?

-Mike

Mike,

  Sorry, I should have answered this above but overlooked it. What I was suggesting was to have him take a slice off both sides basically leaving about a 24" wide cant 30" long. It would have bark on both sides like a real thick LE slab. The flat sides will make it easier to clamp - a huge factor and probably the biggest problem when cutting short pieces - and your blade guides can pass through. Note: If you are using a 2" thick piece against the side supports that will make your total width of cut 26" and you still won't be able to pass the blade through it. Keep that in mind when setting up.

  See if this shows what I am describing
[ 24"]     (        30"    )

   Good luck.

[MikeySP]

My hourly rate is $65.

That makes sense to trim it down for easier clamping. May need to put down a simple table jig made up of a few 4/4 boards that bridge the log supports so an end does not fall into the sawmill frame. I have laid the matter and counsel before him and will saw at his discretion, but have stipulated that stumps will be hourly and all your counsels.

-Mike

[MikeySP]

Ok, I just called Woodmizer with the problem below. Turns out it is likely my drive belt not tightened properly. Very illogical to me. I don't see the correlation, but doubt not the advice, as he spoke with great authority and confidence. The blade dove in this knotty nasty pine. So, I slowy backed up and thinking I was just going too fast, I slowly proceeded, but a few feet later... repeat dive. When reversing sloooowly, blade popped off wheels. SO wife called me in camper for eats. About to drink a cup o joe and head back out, and fix.
 When I can take the log from the board, it will be time for me to leave... grasshopper.



 

[Ben Cut-wright]

"How much to charge".  The dilemma is, you would LIKE to make a profit, and you NEED to recoup some investment and labor.  But, you MUST provide a service level comparative to your charges.  You can't come off as a novice if you are going to charge like a pro, yet you must expect to make some mistakes and can't produce like a more experienced sawyer.  There will be more included in your dilemma, but no use peering into a crystal ball any further. Knowing these will need to be overcome is halfway to resolving them.

Charging by the hour dictates you are skilled, not in-training.  Charging by your output might not get you as much cash right away and could even be a precedent that you wish you had never begun.  Jumping so quickly into a paying job, with all the restrictions and expectations that demands, is gonna be fraught with risks.  Heck, experienced owner/operators have to contend with unforeseen risks. 

A quality product that shows you know what you are doing shouldn't come with a bottom-feeder price tag.  What you are 'striving to accomplish' should always be the sales pitch, not how much the client must pay.  Best way to get what the customer wants the most from the raw material,  then make every effort to achieve that goal.  "What you can do for the client" pays more than how much he must fork-over. 

(FREE advice for what it's worth.   Don't have an audience for as long as you can keep folks away. Make your mistakes and learn from them while you are gaining experience and skill.  Never be content that good enough is good enough.  BE SAFE.)

You have a saw mill, you have a client who wants his logs made into usable materials.   The other unknown factors will come with experience.  I wish you good luck and hope you become a profitable sawyer. But mostly I hope you enjoy learning to make good lumber.  

[Southside]

Young Jedi, never catch a falling knife and never back a turning band out of a cut. 

[WV Sawmiller]

My hourly rate is $65.

That makes sense to trim it down for easier clamping. May need to put down a simple table jig made up of a few 4/4 boards that bridge the log supports so an end does not fall into the sawmill frame. I have laid the matter and counsel before him and will saw at his discretion, but have stipulated that stumps will be hourly and all your counsels.
-Mike

You should not need the jig on the bottom to keep the log/cant from falling between the rails if the "logs/stumps/long firewood pieces" are 30" as originally mentioned as the bed rails on your mill are about 26" on center at the clamp. You will need a long piece on the side to brace between the log and the side supports to brace against. You can probably get by with a piece of scrap 4/4 but I prefer 8/4 so I can clamp tighter. You probably only need such a board on the side support and not on the clamp side. Once you cut the round off you can probably flip it over and brace better with the cut surface down. Remember those short pieces like to jump out of the clamp as they are only clamped/braced at one point. When they do jump out real bad things happen to the fast moving blade and the wood does not fare too well either. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

Mike think of this as being a graduate student, getting paid while you get your education!!!

A way you can get a Ph.D. by kicking yourself in the behind.  Like chainsaw milling. 

[terrifictimbersllc]

How does a new guy know when his blade is dull? 

Put on a new one once in a while.  See what the difference is.