Forestry Forum software limitations.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 08:52:05 AM

Some of you are not going to want to hear this, but we are going to need to make a change. I was talking with Magicman about it last night.
I've been monitoring a growing issue on the Forum's responsiveness. At times it slows and nearly stops. The last serveral weeks I have had to restart the operating system as well as the database server almost daily. I wasn't sure what was going on at first but began to correlate the activity on one topic would be high when this was occurring. I checked with the software authors and they confirmed my suspicions. A very long topic that gets many hits at the same time taking a toll on the server.

Here is an analogy for you. Everyone getting on a airplane and sitting on one side of the plane. If only a few are on, makes no difference, as you have more and more people get on the plane begins to be come increasingly difficult to control, but still flies. Now picture those people on one side of the plane getting up and down, switching seats (posting and changing pages). The unstable plane either has to land or crash.

This is what is happening with the Whatcha Sawin' topic. The software was never intended to have topics hundreds and hundreds of pages long. It wouldn't matter if it was a topic long and there was little activity on it, but that is not the case here. This topic has become kind of a catchall. An easy place to post and an easy place to go see posts and it is beginning to have an adverse effect on the performance of the forum and it will only grow worse, in fact I feel because of the the last two weeks, it is reaching critical mass.

So with that said, and with great regret, I am going to have to lock the Whatcha Sawin' ??? topic. I will post a link to this explanation there. We will need to go back to the way we did things before this topic. Ya'll know how.

We just can't have these huge collaborated topics. It seems 40 or 50 pages does nothing to performance. and compared to most topics, that in itself is a huge topic.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 08:57:30 AM

From the Software authors.

QuoteAddition #3 (July 1st): Cap the length of your threads This is one of those things that ought to be a setting - even vBulletin is known for choking on large threads, look up rpg.net's motivational poster history. Large threads mean there is a large result set for further instructions in the query to prune from, and if a thread is too disproportionally large, even browsing the thread will result in using table scans instead of the index - a very bad situation indeed.

30k is what I use for Elliquiy, and Ben uses 25k for Red and White Kop. Keep in mind, though, that we are both running finely tuned dedicated servers with two hard disks, two cores, and 4gb of RAM. You may want to cap thread length closer to 1k posts.

This also has the effect of making individual threads less overwhelming.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 09:00:38 AM

If you have some things just left hanging in the whatcha sawing topic, please, please feel free to go back in there and copy, and start a new related topic to what ever it is that is just hanging out there.

btulloh · March 06, 2019, 09:36:08 AM

Seems reasonable and necessary.

Maybe it should be re-started as a new thread on a monthly or annualbasis. I personally have never gone back farther than where I left off reading it. It's certainly been a nice way to just keep up with what's going on right now but not something to dig back through the ages. "Useful Sawmill mods" on the other hand . . .

You gotta do whatcha gotta do to keep things hummin'.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 09:39:49 AM

I'd think diversity rather than a repeat is the best thing going forward.

Southside · March 06, 2019, 10:03:03 AM

Jeff - would it be possible to put the topic as a sticky for future members to be able to find easily? Hate to see all the historical knowledge, and past members, in there get buried on a list.

WV Sawmiller · March 06, 2019, 10:23:08 AM

Jeff,

Thanks for the explanation. I think most of us understand there are various limitations on any system and appreciate you keeping up with and fine tuning the system to keep it running as well as it does.

Whatcha Sawing had a long and happy run but I guess its time he went to pasture and enjoys a big ole bowl of grits. :D

Peter Drouin · March 06, 2019, 12:30:42 PM

Is ]A Day cutting wood] a problem?

Magicman · March 06, 2019, 01:13:13 PM

Seeing the Whatcha Sawin' ?? Topic laid to rest will be like saying a final Good Bye to an Old Friend, but all is good. Jeff and I talked last night and what he did was exactly what I suggested, (but it probably was what he was going to do anyway). ;D

Just a bit of history: There was never any intent for the topic to be about me. I got a load of ERC to saw on Dec, 23, 2014, and knowing that I would not saw it that year I posted a picture and asked; "Whatcha Sawin' Next Year?". The response was overwhelming and before the end of that year the topic had gotten 55 replies! On January 3, 2015, I modified and removed the "Next Year" portion of the topic name and it became simply; Whatcha Sawin' ??.

So in 4 years the topic had grown to become the Forestry Forum's largest topic relating to Forestry/Sawmilling in both Views and Replies. Both good and bad because it ultimately became a topic that the FF could no longer efficiently carry. Amazingly there were times when the topic received over 1000 views per week! I will admit that I too contributed to it's ultimate demise because there were times that I would log on, look at Whatcha Sawin' ?? and then log off, especially during lunch when I was sawing.

Guys, Thank You for the kind words that you have given me over the years regarding the topic and it being your "go to" topic. I will continue to share my sawing experiences except that they will now be under their own topic name and I encourage you to do the same.

saskatchewanman · March 06, 2019, 01:39:20 PM

Hi everyone, first post. As a new person to the forum, I have not earned any stripes but have to admit I will miss the Whatcha Sawin Topic. It was the reason I signed up. Loved the pictures, loved the commentary and the unstructured and unpredictable daily developments. It sort of was the coffee shop where the newcomer could come to see the locals and learn something new.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 01:55:02 PM

None of that changes, you just will have to add in a few page changes.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 02:04:41 PM

Quote from: Peter Drouin on March 06, 2019, 12:30:42 PM
Is ]A Day cutting wood] a problem?

So far that topic has not took the pounding the other topic does so has not adversely effected forum performance that I have witnessed. It's a large topic, but has grown over many years and does not get the simultaneous interaction that causes the issue. So, so far, so good.

Ljohnsaw · March 06, 2019, 03:07:55 PM

Now knowing the full history of that thread, what about this? Would it be acceptable to have a Whatcha Sawing 2019... for all to chime in on? Lock it at the end of the year and start a new one each year? Its just so much fun to see what everyone is doing and all the collaboration and help that is shared to try to make everyone successful.

Tom the Sawyer · March 06, 2019, 03:36:49 PM

Would there be a benefit to limiting the number of photos in a single post? There are some topics, like the weather topic, that have hundreds of pages but not that many photos. I would think that limiting the number of photos to 3, or 5, per post might be sufficient to get the point across, especially when the number of pages gets past 10 or so. Just a thought...

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 04:34:15 PM

Quote from: Tom the Sawyer on March 06, 2019, 03:36:49 PMI would think that limiting the number of photos to 3, or 5, per post might be sufficient to get the point across, especially when the number of pages gets past 10 or so.

First, I wholeheartedly agree with that. It seems like with the photos, its like nails in a tree. Why use 3 when 20 will do? :D

Those posts with many many photos is a killer on members that have slower connections, and its just not a good thing to do. (sorry if you happen to be someone that is reading that is an offender to this) I personally hate it for multiple reasons. However, that probably wouldn't make the difference with the issue at hand. The issue is the large number of queries made to access a HUGE database table. If the topic sits here huge, and just has someone looking at it now and again, such as the weather thread, it has little effect on the server, or if it does it is so brief it doesn't matter.

I think we will be fine going back to what we did for the first 15 years.

Quote"Its just so much fun to see what everyone is doing and all the collaboration and help that is shared to try to make everyone successful."

I don't know how in the world that would change unless one is unwilling to make a few more clicks to view more topics, or that this topic has more of that then the first 15 years of the forum? I'm not asking people to post less, I'm just saying if you put your groceries in more baskets so to speak they can then be carried easier by the forum software. The software developers think that 1000 posts in a topic is the outside limits to having a healthy forum. This topic had over 12,000

Ljohnsaw · March 06, 2019, 05:25:06 PM

Quote from: Jeff on March 06, 2019, 04:34:15 PMQuote "Its just so much fun to see what everyone is doing and all the collaboration and help that is shared to try to make everyone successful." I don't know how in the world that would change unless one is unwilling to make a few more clicks to view more topics, or that this topic has more of that then the first 15 years of the forum? I'm not asking people to post less, I'm just saying if you put your groceries in more baskets so to speak they can then be carried easier by the forum software. The software developers think that 1000 posts in a topic is the outside limits to having a healthy forum. This topic had over 12,000

That's what I'm trying to avoid. If the topic rolls over every year or maybe 6 months to keep it under the 1,000 posts, that's fine. Maybe I'm a bad web user, but I use the "Show new replies to your posts" to keep up on what I'm interested in following. I posted to the Whatcha' Sawing and then I can get back to it easily. It is a really great showcase of what people are doing and obviously a popular meeting spot. To get the same experience, I would have to search daily for new "sawing" posts and make a comment in each, if only a :P so that I can use the shortcut. Its your house, so your rules. I'll do whatever

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 05:36:07 PM

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 06, 2019, 05:25:06 PMIts your house, so your rules. I'll do whatever

Honestly, that's not really a fair way to access this.

Ljohnsaw · March 06, 2019, 05:39:14 PM

No, you took that the wrong way. To keep the forum functional and healthy, we ALL need to do what's right. We just need to know what and you are the one that can educate us.

doc henderson · March 06, 2019, 05:44:52 PM

maybe you can remind us if there is an aberrant thread that is at 1,000 posts, and it could be suggested or we be reminded that we are getting into territory that will effect the whole forum. Then maybe we can be redirected to a new thread and carry on. then after 30 days or so, the older thread coul be "locked" to new posts.

Jeff · March 06, 2019, 05:50:23 PM

I'm not going to dictate the ebb and flow of topics because of this. Just know, going forward, if we get one that begins to becomes a technical problem, We'll just deal with it.

Peter Drouin · March 06, 2019, 07:05:45 PM

I was hoping when I saw this I could keep the A day cutting wood thing.
It shows how I started portable sawing, to having a sawmill at home selling lumber doing very well.
But I want the best thing for this forum.
I'm [all in] here, ;)

Magicman · March 06, 2019, 09:32:03 PM

Guys, it's really simple. When you saw a whack whether large or small or have a special project, start a new topic and share it with everyone. That topic may get 3 replies or it may get 300 replies depending upon the interest that it generates.

Matter of fact, I have a special sawmill project that I will do tomorrow that has nothing to do with sawing but all to do with my sawmill. Stay tuned. ;D

hacknchop · March 06, 2019, 10:13:47 PM

By far the best and most inclusive forum I personally have found though I must admit that because it covers such a diverse bunch of topics I no longer check out any others, so thank you Jeff and your helpers for providing hrs of good usefull and at times entertaining content.

Crossroads · March 06, 2019, 11:32:48 PM

👍🏻

olcowhand · March 07, 2019, 05:17:11 AM

I also want to compliment Jeff and the MM for managing this topic to the max. I know that many of us newer members started our engagement with the FF by following this thread. I remember leaving a sticky note on my screen reminding me what page I was on last. It's been my "Go- to" in Bookmarks, and has really represented the "pulse" of the Sawyer activities.
I also learned a lot about the members of the forum, how to best convey thoughts, sawmill terminology, etc.
Thanks everyone, for making that thread meaningful to me and many more. I'm sure we'll find a way to continue in the spirit of the FF. I'm sure I'll have to expand my horizons......