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Barbender - I hear what you are saying - a steady diet of junk is bad no matter what you are dealing with, and higher rates a lot of times aren't able to compensate for lack of production.I just saw the one machine where you aren't paying labor, workers comp, you use less fuel, probably less maintenance cost, and the ability to cut a much wider variety of tracts and ground types and best of all no employees! However I'm guessing price of one is in the $650k range and for just one piece of equipment that's tough to overcome.I'm assuming your buddy cutting in GA was using traditional 2 machine setup? Any ideas what kind of production he was getting?
Thanks Skeans and Barbender, the dream is officially dead. I would need the production to be in the 3-4 loads/day range to make work. Our wood may be heavier so processing might be quicker to get to the tonnage, but I think it is still a stretch. As you mentioned still have loading time to factor in, and unless you can somehow schedule trucks or have set out trailers there is going to be a lot of switching going on.
We've had a few discussions on the topic of Cut-to-Length machines and I thought I'd start a thread to discuss some of the trends. Just painting a picture: Sort of three harvesting methods competing in the US. Whole tree- Feller buncher, skidder, slasher/loader. Shovel Logging- feller, excavator, processors, and CTL- processor & forwarder. We've seen a giant contraction in the number of manufacturers of skidders, down to Tigercat and JohnDeere for the most part- which is odd because there are more feller buncher manufactures than skidder manufacturers. I have heard that the total skidder sales volume was less than 1000 units in the US in 2018- despite a steady timber market. If the global market is moving away from skidders I could see it being an every more niche market with support challenges and lack of innovation. Shovel logging, started in PNW, is moving into the south instead of CTL and I find that interesting as well. Shovel logging often still uses a processor on the landing so that is a real difference for some loggers-in the environmentally challenging coastal plain shovel logging may be a winner in large plantation clearcuts. Shovel logging obviously would not work in thinning, it's a clearcut process so something to watch if it gains more market share. It would mean a bifurcation of harvesting teams, has this already happened in the PNW. @Skeans1 and others might jump itGlobally the CTL market seems to be booming; Ponsse sold 300 units in Russia alone last year. That's a combination of Forwarders and Harvesters. If Ponsse is selling that many than JD and Komatsu are likely very close. That would put the Russian market at nearly 1000 units by itself. Virtually no skidders being sold there anymore from what I hear. CTL tidbits in no particular order:Another note on processors. I hear that some mills in the south are now requiring that their loggers have processors on the landing which I think may hasten some change. Locally and very relevant to me: Tigercat dealer was unable to show me a forwarder in person, turns out there are 2 new tigercat forwarders in the US and one was made in 2018. Seems to me that Tigercat is having trouble figuring out a market placement. They have some great tracked harvester machines but boggie driven harvesters and forwarders seem to challenge them. The manager in the local dealer was great, very responsive. Just clear that CTL was not something they have experience or backing to support.Komatsu, JD, Ponsse are the clear 123 in Europe and the NA markets, just depends on location to determine rank. Even in Finland JD still gets a nice chunk of the market share (behind Ponsse) which I find interesting. Here in NA Ponsse has a very strong resale value but is hampered by the lack of equipment financing (ask me how I know ) and high initial prices. In the south things are different: JD and Komatsu have the financing but dealer support is still lacking they appear to do well in the PNW where dealers offer better support. Ponsse mobile support teams might be an option for JD and Komatsu and give loggers the comfort to know they will not be stranded with millions of dollars in equipment in the field.
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