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Author Topic: Chinese Elm?  (Read 363 times)

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Offline EOTE

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Chinese Elm?
« on: March 22, 2020, 07:17:22 PM »
I have a ton of these trees throughout my land and I think I have identified it as Chinese Elm.  Most of the trees are juvenile with only a few having trunk diameters over 8".  

Here are some photos of the tree, bark, and leaves...


 









 



Am I correct in my assessment of this tree species?
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Offline KEC

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2020, 08:40:39 PM »
You should post this under  "Tree, Plant and wood ID".

Offline EOTE

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2020, 11:25:15 PM »
You should post this under  "Tree, Plant and wood ID".
Sorry if I posted this in the wrong topic.  I am not sure how I could move it to the correct topic area.  
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Offline Nebraska

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2020, 07:18:39 AM »
Siberian I think.

Offline WDH

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2020, 07:54:30 AM »
Hard to tell from your pic, but I suspect that the leaves are finely toothed.  I believe that what you have is hophornbeam, Ostrya virginiana.  A member of the beech family and common in the US East of the Mississippi river.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2020, 08:15:15 AM »
The Chinese Elm or Drake elm, Ulmus parviflorum, has a smoother bark that often has a grey, splotchy pattern.  If that is a hophornbeam, as WDH suggests, it should be pubescent and some of the leaf veins should split (hop) before they get to the leaf margin. 
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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2020, 10:12:51 AM »
Hard to tell from your pic, but I suspect that the leaves are finely toothed.  I believe that what you have is hophornbeam, Ostrya virginiana.  A member of the beech family and common in the US East of the Mississippi river.
I went out and got a couple of branches to photograph from the tree in the picture at the start of this thread.  The leaves seem to be very finely toothed and the veins look to be very deep and pronounced.  The leaves seem to be in groups of 4.


 


 
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Offline EOTE

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2020, 10:35:26 AM »
This thread is challenging my powers of observation.  So I went out and started looking at the other trees I thought were the same and they are not.  The leaves and bark are different.

Here is a photo of the leaves and bark... 




 

The leaves are in groups of 5, and the edges are highly serrated.  They are slightly smaller at 2-1/2" in length for the largest ones.  The veins are not as pronounced and are opposite.



 

This is the bark on a tree with about a 5" trunk.



 

So now it looks like I am actually trying to identify 2 separate species of trees.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2020, 04:10:43 PM »
Yes Sir, two species.  Original one is definitely hophornbeam.  Second one is an elm, either winged elm or cedar elm.  The elms have leaves that are doubly serrate.  If you look close, there are two sizes of teeth.  Large coarse ones and smaller ones in between. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2020, 05:12:43 PM »
Second one is an elm, either winged elm or cedar elm.


I have a lot of winged elm and this one isn't the same.  It does not have any of the corky wings that the Winged Elm has on the branches...I believe you are correct on it being Cedar Elm.   I checked the databases at Texas A&M and Stephen F. Austin University and the second one seems to more closely match Cedar Elm.

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Offline WDH

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 07:45:29 AM »
Not all winged elms have wings :).  However, it is most likely cedar elm.  They are such close cousins that the differences don't really matter that much.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2020, 10:33:14 AM »
Not all winged elms have wings :).  However, it is most likely cedar elm.  They are such close cousins that the differences don't really matter that much.
WDH, here are some photos of what I am calling winged elm.  They seem to differ from the other trees that we are calling Cedar Elm by the fact that even the smallest branches have the corky wings and as the tree gets older the wings get larger.  The bark seems to be slghtly different as well.  



 




This is a more mature tree so the bark comparison may not be valid with the previous bark photos.




It does make some pretty nice looking lumber which seems stable and dries pretty straight.





EOTE (End of the Earth - i.e. last place on the road in the middle of nowhere)  Retired.  Old guys rule!
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Offline WDH

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2020, 04:54:24 PM »
Your winged elms are heavily winged.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Online btulloh

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Re: Chinese Elm?
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2020, 05:20:17 PM »
Thats what my winged elms look like also. The wings are mostly on the smaller limbs only. No dark heartwood in mine. Not much lumber value in the couple i sawed. Ive been losing a lot of them to some type of beetle. 
HM126


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