CSM chain sharpening

Brad_bb · July 06, 2019, 10:33:44 AM

I've been using the Granberg sharpener since I started CSM'ing a few years ago. It's not an easy tool to use. It's difficult to get it on over the .404 10 degree rip chain/bar. It's pretty tight and had to be set right to move the chain through it. Sometimes while advancing the chain, it gets caught on the jig and moves the position of the jig and you have to tighten the thumbscrew as best you can. I understand their goal is keep the chain very consistent. It takes 30-45 minutes to sharpen the chain, maybe an hour sometimes. I'm wondering if there's a better or faster way?

A couple years ago I started using Stihl's 2 in 1 file on my regular chainsaw. I love the thing. It's fast, the chain is sharp like a new chain. Stihl doesn't make one for .404 (7/32) chain. It's not just the file size, but the spacing of the flat file to the round file so they both work correctly. Pferd does make one for .404. Not sure the relationship between the two companies, but they look almost exactly the same except for color.

The angle of the blue plastic housing is to help you hold the correct 30 degree angle for most cross cut chain. But other than that, is there any reason this couldn't be used on the 10 degree rip chain? On my regular chainsaw my cuts stay straight with this method. I don't see why they wouldn't with this? If I did 2 or 3 sharpenings with this to do a log, I could use the granberg one after ?

What do other CSM'ers do to sharpen? Any reason why you wouldn't use this?

lxskllr · July 06, 2019, 10:46:49 AM

I've yet to mill anything, but my intention is to freehand file like I do my regular saws, though doing 114dl isn't appealing.

AFAIK, Pferd is the manufacturer of the Stihl system.

Magicman · July 06, 2019, 11:00:20 AM

The Timberline sharpener was recently discussed in a couple of topics in the Chainsaw Board: Home Depot chainsaw sharpener in Chainsaws and chain saw sharpener in Chainsaws

It is very accurate and easy to use.

olcowhand · July 06, 2019, 01:38:34 PM

I'm probably going to hear some reproach for this, but I've been using those diamond burrs with a cordless Dremel for a couple years now, and it works just as good on my CSM setup as it does on my Cross cut chains. I free hand it on a stump or tailgate, and they work very well for me. For the longest time, I was using files and every type of sightline gage that's out there. I could never put the kind of sharpen on my chains that I can with this setup. These burrs last quite a while, as long as I'm not repairing a chain from rock damage...... There can be a marble- sized rock 50 yards from where I'm cutting, but my 20" Bar will find a way of running my chain across it.

Brad_bb · July 07, 2019, 12:10:22 AM

Ok, ok. I'd forgotten that I'd seen that awhile back.
https://www.timberlinesharpener.com/video

It looks like it would work well, but the one shortfall I see is that it doesn't file the rakers at the same time like the pferd tool would. I've never liked the stamped steel raker height gages that you run the file across. Being stamped as they are, I don't trust that they will give me the right height or consistency. Maybe there is a better raker height file guide out there on par with the timberlinesharpener?

woodyone.john · July 07, 2019, 01:08:58 AM

I'm definitely a fan of the still/pferd sharpener. Too easy,plenty sharp. Now just got to source the pferd 404 variant.

terrifictimbersllc · July 07, 2019, 06:57:19 AM

Quote from: woodyone.john on July 07, 2019, 01:08:58 AM
I'm definitely a fan of the still/pferd sharpener. Too easy,plenty sharp. Now just got to source the pferd 404 variant.

Glad to hear there is one available for 404. Been wishing to have one, i use the 3/8 and 1/4 Stihl and those are the answer.
Here you go
https://www.baileysonline.com/pferd-cs-x-chain-sharp-filing-guides-17300p.html

OOPS.....now I see that it is only for full comp chain, won't be good for the the skip tooth I use mostly with 404.

Mad Professor · July 07, 2019, 11:04:27 AM

I use the pferd setup and stihl PMX milling chain (3/8 picco).

Brad_bb · July 07, 2019, 12:23:20 PM

Quote from: terrifictimbersllc on July 07, 2019, 06:57:19 AM

https://www.baileysonline.com/pferd-cs-x-chain-sharp-filing-guides-17300p.html

OOPS.....now I see that it is only for full comp chain, won't be good for the the skip tooth I use mostly with 404.

Why won't it work on skip tooth chain?? I know they say that in the description, but why? I'll go out and put my still one up against my CSM chain and see if I can see why.

Jemclimber · July 08, 2019, 07:22:42 AM

It won't work on skip tooth because it registers on the cutter in front of the one being filed. On skip tooth, the spacing is too far and there's nothing there for the guide to rest on.

moodnacreek · July 08, 2019, 12:40:34 PM

Learn to file by eye. I've tried most of the toys over the years and always go back to a handle on a file. However if you are hitting stuff filing is tough and tough on files because the teeth are getting shot peened and short and long so grind but that often hardens the teeth and makes it hard to file.

Jemclimber · July 09, 2019, 06:54:56 AM

Filing the cutters by eye and keeping them the same length is relatively easy, because teeth are next to each other and are easier to compare. Filing the depth gauges by eye...not so much. If anyone can see 0.005" from opposite sides on the depth gauges, without a measuring device, that is quite a feat. I've never met this person, and I know quite a few cutters from doing the work I do... Small differences in depth gauges will make a chain cut crooked which will make a bar wear unevenly, which exacerbates the problem. A chain cutting a little crooked isn't a big deal for firewood. For felling, making notches at height, snap cuts and such, it's not something I like to deal with. I've sharpened more than a few chains with a file in my years of cutting. I usually file unless a chain has hit something, then I grind.

If grinding is hardening the teeth, then either the the wheel is clogged and needs to be dressed, or the operator needs to learn correct grinding technique. A grinder shouldn't surface harden, or "blue" the the tooth. Cbn wheels make a big difference on a grinder...

The Stihl (Pferd) 2 in 1 file is a nice file, and worth the money. My 2 cents....

Brad_bb · July 12, 2019, 02:17:57 PM

I'm not finding a better quality raker filing gauge than the stamped steel ones. I don't have a lot of confidence that the stamped part will be within a couple thou.

esteadle · October 05, 2019, 09:54:07 PM

There is a lot of truth in this thread about grinding.

Hand filing would take a lot of work to heat up a tooth.
Grinding will heat up a tooth in a fraction of a second.

The grinding technique that is recommended is to 'pulse' the grind.
Take short strokes into the tooth, out again, back in again.
Letting the grinder do the work, and keeping it fast and up to speed.
Just a small amount of material at a time.
Gently, and quickly.

Hearing....
wheeEEEERRRRGGGGGHHHHHh is not what you want to be doing.

zine zien zine zein... is what you want.

richhiway · October 06, 2019, 08:50:43 PM

When I was CSM I used the ezlap diamond in the 12v ezlap or a dremel.
It only takes a minute to freshen up the chain. You can keep the angle well.
At the end of the day if that chain was still on the saw I would use a granberg hand file guide.
If the chain was off the saw I would sharpen it on the bench grinder. Both methods give perfect angles.
I would use the bench grinder to set the depth gauges every so often as needed.

ethanbrush · October 07, 2019, 08:55:42 AM

I used exactly the setup as the OP for years. I recently started using a file. It is so much better. It's faster and I get sharper chains that cut longer

Weekend_Sawyer · October 07, 2019, 12:00:30 PM

I hand file. I give it a touch up every 3rd or 4th pass.
I can do it without removing the mill.
Rakers every 2nd sharpening lightly and again by hand.

Jon

mredden · October 07, 2019, 03:55:15 PM

I hand file about 3 strokes in the field between every cut. Working on doing the filing while the saw is still in the mill but still feel awkward with my strokes. If the rakers feel like they need adjustment, I just change chains. I usually have three chains with me. If I hit rocks, nails, etc, I just change chains and don't try correcting major problems in the field.

I fine tune with a Granberg and (re)set the rakers in my shop vise every night after cutting. I only use a grinder if there are major problems or I am re-setting the angles.