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Author Topic: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.  (Read 516 times)

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Offline nybhh

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Hi guys,
I've milled up a bunch of 5/4, 8/4 and 12/4 ash for use on finishing out the ceiling, the interior wall, and some furniture for a 22x24  3-sided screened in room we are building.  Is there any point in drying the wood down below the 11.75-12.5% equilibrium temperature of my area?    

I'm most concerned about the glue-ups on the slabs.  I generally use TB2 Extend for glue-ups, would TB3 make more sense in this environment?  I've never used TB3 for anything other than 3/8" plugs for screw holes on a deck but the open time scares me.

We will also be using Ipe for the perimeter soffits, post wraps, screen-frames and a screen-door.  I've worked with Ipe quite a bit, used it on our deck and a vertical garden wall so I'm familiar with its idiosyncrasies but never with non-mechanical joinery.  The plan for the screen door is a simple shaker-style door with deep 2" mortise and tenons and I've read Ipe laughs at PVA glues and polyurethane glues aren't much better.  I'm hoping to skip an intermediate rail and just use 4" side and top rails with a 6-8" bottom rail which is why the joinery will be so important since the middle panel will just be screen so there is nothing to prevent racking.  Would a marine grade epoxy work for gluing up the M&Ts, something like West Systems that is generally used with tropical woods in boat construction?

Thanks,
Brandon
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota L3800, Stihl MS261 & 40 acres of ticks trees.

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2019, 07:20:34 PM »
LYou want your lumber to be at equilibrium for the environment it will live in.  It sounds like your environment will be open to outside air, but protected from rain.  If equilibrium is 12% then thats what you should build at.  If you kiln dry it and then move it outside, it will take on moisture and expand a little.
Woodmizer LT15
Kubota Grand L4200
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2017 F350 Diesel 4WD

Offline Larry

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Re: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2019, 08:21:29 PM »
I dry my wood to be at equilibrium in the environment it will live in.

I think garden gates see the most severe conditions.  I use West epoxy but don't depend on it.  All the M&T joints are pinned.



I also use West epoxy on exterior doors.  TB3 would probably have the same life.  Epoxy has a couple of advantages.  Long open time and acts like a lubricant in the joint.  TB can swell the joint making assembly a slight bit harder.

I think I worry to much to attempt a screen door with out something to prevent racking.  This one is about the most daring I've ever been.


For your covered furniture TB3 will work well.  I use lots of TB1 for interior stuff but if any moisture resistance is required I go straight to TB3.  I think of TB2 as something not needed and never use it.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Offline low_48

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Re: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2019, 10:25:32 PM »
I'd use draw bore ipe pins through the joinery. You can also add a stainless steel angular cross bar like in the old days if it starts to rack. I'd put a good finish on that ash, I don't think it has a high rot resistance.

Offline nybhh

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Re: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2019, 09:15:48 AM »
Good morning,   Thanks for the input.  Yea, other than sterilization perhaps, it just didnt make sense to me either to kiln dry this stuff just to slowly float back up to air dry percentages.

Good advise on draw boring the mortises.  Im doing that on the workbench Im building now but if the glue joint fails, I suspect Ill have racking issues regardless.  I had also considered a diagonal ss cable with a nice integrated turnbuckle - the cable railing companies make some beautiful stuff so that could be a failsafe fallback if the door does rack at some point.

I havent spent too much time searching yet but Im having a bit of trouble sourcing 10/4 ipe so Im thinking I may have to joint & plane down regular 2x decking stock and laminate 2 pieces together to get a 1.75-2 finished thickness. Definitely a job for the epoxy as well but may help stabilize things a bit. My wife wants a concealed closer on this door as well so this is turning into quite the project.

@Larry, those are very well done sir!  I had considered an intermediate rail like that but the entry door into the conditioned space adjacent to the screen door is a Pella patio entry door that is basically a shaker styled door except it has glass as the center panel and the boss  wants the proportions to match despite the  construction challenges.  I tried to get Pella to sell me one without glass but no dice.  Thank you for sharing - beautiful work!
Woodmizer LT15, Kubota L3800, Stihl MS261 & 40 acres of ticks trees.

Offline low_48

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Re: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2019, 12:15:00 AM »
Are you saying you are going to make the door from 10/4 Ipe? Good Lord, you'll bow the studs carrying that kind of weight! You'll need ball bearing hinges for sure, probably 2 pair. Why so thick? 1 1/4" would be plenty for a screen door! You'll need a door closer even for that. You do know that laminated Ipe is notorious for delaminating after time, right? So want happens to the door if the parts delaminate? You can't draw bore those.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: Target moisture % for screened-in and covered "exterior" furniture.
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2019, 10:28:04 PM »
If you're using wood on the ceiling T&G or butted together and screwed up, wait until the wood is expanded to it's widest seasonally to install it.  Like in the summer after it's been humid for a bit.  If you install it in the fall or winter or any time the humidity is down, the moisture in the boards will be down, and when the following summer humidity comes, they will expand against each other and buckle.  We've had this happening to Ash T&G in our barn.  We've had to pull a bunch down and reinstall it.  I put this one on my GC.  It was kiln dried and stored inside a conditioned space and now allowed to acclimate properly to outside before they started installing and they started installing before summer :embarassed:.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!


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