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Author Topic: Industrial dehumidifier  (Read 905 times)

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Online firefighter ontheside

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Industrial dehumidifier
« on: July 25, 2019, 05:31:20 PM »
Does anyone know anything about industrial dehumidifiers.  Iím gonna buy one for my wifeís office because she got 3Ē of water down there this week and I need to dry it out.  Iím wondering if anyone has used one in a drying kiln.  After itís done at the office Iím thinking it will be good for my kiln, but not sure.  The one in question is a Drizair LGR 2000.  Iím buying it used.  Itís descrived as low grain.  I donít know what that means.  Thanks in advance.


 
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Online Don P

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2019, 06:33:39 PM »
The weight of water in the air is measured in grains. I assume they are trying to say it gets you down to low moisture.
What the coils are made of is going to be the biggest thing, the moisture in wood is acidic, especially so with some woods like oak. Aluminum coils aren't going to last terribly long in that environment. Nyle offers several different coils at different price points. Ebac makes DH kilns and industrial DH units, the guts are basically the same, the controls are different but it isn't rocket science.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2019, 08:31:23 PM »
I stand corrected ::). There is another stage before the cooling coils to get the incoming air closer to dew point so that the cooling coils work more efficiently. I read a few company blurbs this one was the best so far;
http://www.prodrying.com/lgr-dehumidifiers-a-8.html
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2019, 09:22:23 PM »
5 grains of asprin is 325 mg.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2019, 09:56:25 PM »
Do you think your wiwife would notice the difference if you set a Nyle DH unit up in the office for a few days?😁
Too many irons in the fire

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2019, 11:57:42 PM »
Thanks for the replies.  Good responses.  I will only be putting air dried wood in the kiln, so I donít feel like the acidic oak is gonna be a big problem at that point.

The thought of a nyle in the office hadnít occurred to me.  The problem is that I already told her I found a dehumidifier for $800.  Iím not sure I can swing the $3000 for the nyle.  Sheís pretty smart.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2019, 06:32:36 AM »
5 grains of asprin is 325 mg.
Quote
The troy system historically was used for measuring the weight of drugs, precious metals and gemstones. The name comes from the French city of Troyes. The noble metals (gold, silver and platinum) all use the troy system. A troy ounce is 20 pennyweights. The pennyweight was the weight of a silver penny in medieval England. When pennies were introduced in England in the 8th century, their original weight is believed to have been 24 grains. This was gradually reduced, in at least thirteen stages until it reached 7.27 grains by 1816. 24 grains = 1 pennyweight and 20 pennyweights = 1 ounce troy.
Even more trivia if youíd like to read on. ďGrain is an ancient unit which was originally based on the weight of a grain of wheat. The grain is the smallest unit of weight in the avoirdupois, troy, and apothecaries systems. Surprisingly it is identical in all three systems.Ē 4 grains = 1 carat; 24 grains =1 pennyweight; 480 grains = 1 troy ounce; 15.432 grains = 1 gram.
ďAlthough we have stated above that the grain weighed the same in all three of the above systems, there were at least two different grains. The troy system used the supposed weight of the barley grain, whereas the wheat grain was also used as a standard of weight. There were three barley grains to four wheat grains.Ē
Drinking coffee and noodling around before going to CSM some butternut logs at the farmers market this morning. Ammunition also uses the same grain, 1/7,000 of a pound or .065 grams per grain
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2019, 08:18:06 AM »
@firefighter ontheside 

The problem with regular dehumidifiers is two things.

1) Corrosion from the tannic acid. You are correct it will be less with air dried wood but it will still be there and cleaning it from the coils will be difficult if not impossible.

2) They only operate at low temperatures and that means very long drying times.

I hope this helps.
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 the vices I admire." -Winston Churchill

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2019, 01:49:53 PM »
Well, I bought the unit.  Itís huge.  Iíve got it running at the office.  Hopefully it does a good job there.  Thatís my main concern.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 10:08:44 AM »
@firefighter ontheside

The problem with regular dehumidifiers is two things.

1) Corrosion from the tannic acid. You are correct it will be less with air dried wood but it will still be there and cleaning it from the coils will be difficult if not impossible.

2) They only operate at low temperatures and that means very long drying times.

I hope this helps.
Of course, you know what youíre talking about.  Iíve finally got my shed ready to put the dehumidifier in.  Reading the manual for this unit, it should only be operated at up to 90į.  As you mentioned, thatís not gonna cut it.  Iím gonna plug it in in there and see how warm it gets.  At this time of year, Iím sure itís gonna hit 90 in no time.  Now that we are done with it at the office, we will probably sell it.  I will use my regular dehumidifier and plan to buy a Nyle or other.  
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2020, 08:47:03 AM »
From time to time, a company will claim that their heat pump is much more efficient than another unit.  One company outside the USA claim that its basic measure of horsepower was larger than the horsepower of USA made dehumidifiers.  

However, differences in efficiency, from one DH unit to another DH, are very small.  To take air in a dry kiln or other structure at a given temperature and humidity, and then run the air through a heat pump (more technical term for a dehumidifier) must follow the Laws of Thermodynamics.  In fact, in a class about heat and mass transfer, the dehumidifier cycle is a classic problem that is well studied.  To get from one point (more humid) to another point (lower humidity), the path used  does not matter. 

When water vapor is condensed to a liquid, the energy released is fixed.

 The difference in operation efficiency can be only in the fan volume (and increased air volume costs a lot...double the air volume increases energy use by eight time) and the possible restrictions in the operating temperatures.  Also, with the environmental driven restrictions on the use of old Freon gases that destroyed the ozone layer in the air, the new, safer gases do not lubricate as well, so compressor life is reduced.  Also, acidic acid in wood does attack the metal fins used, so special coatings are often used to prolong the DH life.

Incidentally, in the USA, there are only two large compressor manufacturers.  This makes servicing quite simple.  The gas used in the compressor limits the temperature range.  For best overall drying efficiency, the best gas is one that allows the compressor to work at 150 F.  This temperature allows for rapid drying especially at low MCs.

A simple rule of thumb about lumber drying, is that KD lumber has a value increase of $200 to $300 per MBF.  This is adequate to make a nice profit.  It also means that the more lumber that is dried per year, the larger the profit.  So, drying speed is related directly to profit.  So, this means a 150 F operation, compared to 110 F, although more expensive initially will pay for itself quickly.  Also note that faster drying is achieved by better air drying so that the wettest lumber coming into the kiln is lower.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2020, 12:00:35 PM »
It makes sense.  Thanks for the info.  Buying a Nyle or Woodmizer in the future will be my goal.  I had the little household dh in the shed for about 12 hours.  It raised the temp from 79 to 87. It lowered the rh from about 80 down to about 47.  Thereís about 3Ē of water in the pan.  I will be running a tube thru the wall to prevent from having to drain the pan.  I turned the thing off this morning.  It will be interesting to see how temp and rh change in 12 hours with dh off.  My door and walls are sealed well, but I may need to do better with the breaker panel and lights in ceiling.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2020, 12:33:32 PM »
how are you monitoring it.  of course both will change throughout the day and temps.  mine will read the daily high and low for both humidity and temp.  might just run the de-humidifier at night.  mine only works down to about 40% and when the temp goes up it is often less than that.  at night the temp drops and the relative humidity goes up, and that is when you can pull some moisture.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2020, 02:11:50 PM »
I have a little digital thermometer/hygrometer that does just what you said.  It records current and also highs and lows of both.  Iím not planning to run a heater at all, just the dh and fans.  Maybe in cooler weather I can run the larger unit without overheating.  I will only be putting air dried lumber in there.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2020, 05:13:12 PM »
I expect that any community bank would give you a loan to get a NYLE.  As you make money, you can pay off the loan, or use the profit to get a new truck, or throw a big, social distance party.  It is best not to spend cash on hardware, as cash can be used to buy green lumber, logs, etc.  most drying operations are profitable but have cash flow issues their first year or two.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2020, 06:26:44 PM »
I finally got that big dh home and into the shed.  I turned it on in there and it has raised the temp almost 10 deg in an hour.  It will be at 90 soon.  It also lowered the rh in there very quickly.  

 It occurred to me, what about a thermostat that turns the unit off at 90 and back on at something like 85.  I would have fans running constantly.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2020, 06:50:31 PM »
Just remember it doesnít matter what situation or problem that comes up. Your still responsible for that loan regardless. 

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2020, 06:52:28 PM »
I see you are going to distill some wiskey too?! :) :) :)
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2020, 07:05:12 PM »
I see you are going to distill some wiskey too?! :) :) :)
Yes, it does say home brew.  Hmm.
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Re: Industrial dehumidifier
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2020, 07:08:01 PM »
Just remember it doesnít matter what situation or problem that comes up. Your still responsible for that loan regardless.
Though I appreciate the idea of getting a loan for the Nyle, I will not be doing that.  If this was my main employment I certainly would, but this is a side gig and Iím fine with developing it slowly.  I also do a lot of woodworking too.  Iím behind on those as it is.  I am still a Fulltime Fire dept battalion chief.
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