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Author Topic: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer  (Read 5891 times)

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Online Old Greenhorn

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2019, 12:33:22 PM »
 I will look into the Logrite cant hooks. Maybe the un-named member with a dozen can let everyone else know when they find one they like.
 Since you are still getting your sea legs here and have yet to perfect your search skills on the forum (an essential tool for you to have) I have found one of the several posts we are all thinking about regarding these hooks. Click HERE. See reply #10 in that thread. The aforementioned member is a prolific poster with a lot of sage knowledge to share, but it on a well deserved extended driving vacation through the PNW. He will return eventually. We call him Magicman, for reasons you will understand at some point.
 There are several members who have or are in the process of making the journey you are planning and they have threads running in this forum chronicling their adventures and pains. Those will make good reading for you. I myself have one too, but my goals are not as high as yours, none the less you may find some tid-bits of interest (like things NOT to do).
 I got my mill nearly by accident. I bought it because it was available at a very sweet price and I knew the value. I never intended to make any money, just wanted to learn and do some of my own projects. I never looked for work, but it came to me. I began to get those sporadic phone calls 'Hey, Joe tells me you got a sawmill, could you mill me up 2 planks for...' and things like that, so a cash job here and there helps with expenses.
 Sounds like you are well on your way, just keep reading, almost all of your questions have already been asked and answered in previous threads. There is a lot of reading to do. I spend a good deal of time doing that here and have been for about a year now. If you find a memeber who seems to be in your same situation, you can go to their profile (once you have a few posts up) and just read all their posts to see what they are commenting on and what they have questions about. I have found this is a great way to get my head in the game. 
 These are very good folks here and I was blessed to build friendships with 2 very different members in my area and have visited both. Both of them were kind enough to help me with a problem or 3 even though I really didn't ask, they just offered. One really got me out of a bind.
  Enjoy the ride, it's a great wave.
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Offline alan gage

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2019, 12:56:21 PM »
Sure wish I could but I keep stacking them where they are in the way. Now of course I am out of space to stack wood.
 

I'm in the same position. I've got a bunch of air dried wood but no good place to put it. And it's taking up the space I need to stack fresh lumber. I'm building a shop now which is using up some of it and will house equipment to get more of it planed and prepped to sell. I need to saw logs for siding on my building and house but I guess those will just have to sit outside to dry for a few weeks before they go up.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Online moodnacreek

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2019, 01:05:23 PM »
Someone who has been sawing for profit, for a long time, can tell you what not to buy and many other things it would take years to learn. Good luck.

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2019, 01:18:34 PM »
I look at it like this.  Milling is a good way to make some money, but a hard way to make a living. 
 
I dont like employees either.  Some roller conveyor will help at the mill.  Look into getting a mill that has dragback.  When mobile, charge hourly to encourage the owner to provide an off bearer. 
 
You may find someone who can work part time ish on a contract basis.  Suggest them to the owner of the logs at mobile jobs and have the owner pay them as a contractor.  Not your employee, but a big step up at the same time.  Saves you a ton of paperwork! 
 
Ive also heard people wish they had gotten the kiln first and just custom dried others lumber.  A possible niche to consider. 
In the long run, you make your own luck good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Offline Southside

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2019, 01:44:13 PM »
Did someone mention stickers? These are from waste we made last week. They are banded and drying on the steel. 1040 of them. 

 

They won't last long once we break into the pack. 
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Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Online WV Sawmiller

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2019, 04:21:36 PM »
   I like the comments about stacking. I'd cut more wood here at home now if I had a place to stack it and yes, everything the customer wants is on the bottom of the stack so at least I rotate the positions regularly. ::) How to display your lumber is another big consideration. 

    Any lumber I sell is typically a salvage operation from fallen or excess trees I own or sometimes people give them to me. Warning - free logs aren't free! It is easy to get more time and handling costs in them than they are worth. I don't buy logs and just finished my first sizable saw on shares job now I have to go pick it up and stack it. I already had to restack one pile to make room for this. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2019, 06:12:22 PM »
I am not far from you and if you would like to drop by to see my operation you are welcome. I have a Cook mill, the MP32 to which I have added electric loading and turning, etc, so it is quite different from the hydraulic version, but you are welcome anyway. BW, the Cook mills are very rugged - I've had mine 17 years and it has held up very well.

Bob
Thanks. I'm just on the other side of Raleigh from you, so I might have to take you up on that.

Offline Larry

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2019, 08:52:41 PM »
I'm lazy.

I bought a TK-2000 in 2010 after 16 years on a manual mill. I equipped my TK with dragback and added a few mods. Couple of roller tables and I'm in business. Most boards and slabs don't really get picked up. They get pushed/shuffled into either the slab rack or the board rack. For the occasional errant slab, I pick up one end and the roller table holds up the other end. Most of the time sawing, I stay right at the console and take very few steps.

Edging was the real muscle puller/back breaker on my mill. I've made modifications by replacing the stock 6 two plane clamp with a 12 clamp, added bearings on the loader arms, and another tweak or two. Now I can flip flitches off logs onto the loader arms with the clamp, and stand up the flitches with the clamp/log turner. Drag back the edgings, and if I hold my tongue just right, even flip the flitches with the two plane clamp. Edging now is pretty painless on the mill, although still slow.

About the only way a helper can improve my productivity is bringing me logs, and hauling off slabs. Of course helpers don't show up on time and try to make up by quitting early, want money, and sometimes grits.

For a long time I was ahead of the mizer mills with a 32 throat on my 2000.  Still only one WM wide in my area I think.  I do think the 2200 with a 37 throat might be worth the extra cash as wide seems to be a seller.

I just thought to add, I have two pieces of support equipment.  A compact tractor with a FEL.  It can only lift 1,000 pounds or so but I use it the most because its quiet, fast, and easy on fuel.  For heavy lifting I have a truck mounted forklift which has also proven itself.  I would hate to give up either one but could get along with just the forklift.  I also have three cant hooks, in the last four days of sawing I used the Logrite mega hook 1 time.  Machines are great!
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

Online doc henderson

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2019, 09:40:21 PM »
I just toured the cave where they assemble the mills.  the b 2000 now has a 35 cut inch throat standard.  they modified the moveable band guide wheel.  Most people like what they are used to and I like my TK.  The WM guys are just as loyal.  I would get the biggest mill you can afford and justify for what you will be doing.  I am just an uber-hobbyist.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Larry

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2019, 10:07:01 PM »
I just toured the cave where they assemble the mills.  the b 2000 now has a 35 cut inch throat standard.  they modified the moveable band guide wheel.
Can my 2000 be modified?
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2019, 10:17:54 PM »
yes, talk to Matt or Mike.  you could try to mod. it yourself, or buy the new parts from them.  still a 36.5 inch gantry.  the new mills also have a heavier toe board, but nothing is cheap.  they are always trying to improve, but the price also goes up.  I think my mill is worth more used now than I paid for it.  7 years ago.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2019, 10:21:06 PM »
Jeepcj,

     It sounds like you are way ahead on the equipment side than I was and in some case still am. There are tons of comments here on the 4 post head and I am sure they are stable. WM even makes a couple now. I watched them at a demo at the NC dealer shop and I saw I'd have to change the way I unload my lumber if I had one. Not right or wrong just different. The biggest complaint I have about the dealers selling them is with some who, as part of their own marketing, say a cantilever head can't cut straight. That's not true and I like to cut a 1/8" veneer cut and show people when they say that. The last log I cut yesterday was a 12' red oak and I was cutting 18" at a pass (I had made a 6" & a 12" cant) cutting some real pretty 4/4 boards. I will say more power and more torque are always nice. My 25 hp kohler uses a little less than a gallon an hour. I ran for 4.3 hours yesterday, all red oak, and cut about 900 bf of 4/4 and a little 6/4 RO lumber. A bigger mill should cut more and faster but that was about as fast as we could handle it with the equipment and muscle power we had on hand.

    I'd suggest concentrate more on whether you will be doing mobile or stationary. The equipment and processing will be real different. On a mobile job you are typically at the mercy of what equipment the customer has for loading and handling logs, boards, sawdust and slabs. If stationary you can consider the edgers, rollers, etc that you can't haul. Also on a mobile job you you have to have and carry a good maintenance and consumable kit with you in case you have to make repairs in the field. When stationary you can just run to the shed and get the item needed.

   The building SouthSide mentions as essential to his operation is not going to be there when sawing mobile. Portable jobs are very much dependent on the weather and way more so than stationary.

    Look carefully at your pricing. Be fair to both sides. You need to be competitive but make a decent profit so you have to be real diligent about capturing all your costs. You will make mistakes - learn from them, correct them as best you can and try not to repeat them. Your reputation is your most valuable asset IMHO and referral from other customers is your best advertising. If you can't handle a request, turn it down or refer to someone who can. Unfortunately at first you won't know that till you try - the old Catch 22 syndrome. I try to practice new cuts and such at home on my wood rather than at a customer site when possible. Good luck.
I trust everyone who has a WM and says that they are excellent mills and cut straight. If they didn't, they would go out of business. I just don't know if I can make it cut straight when it gets out of proper adjustment. I think I'll be more comfortable with a 4 post. I feel at this point like I will be doing about equal amounts of mobile and stationary, but that is based on zero experience. Like I said in a previous post, I was going to do this as a hobby after I retire, so I hope I can just scale things up from hobby to small business. I will go mobile when I think there is money in it, and stay stationary otherwise. I'll need to put in some practice with my own logs before I try to mess someone else's up. I probably will not buy any trees. I hope to be able to get trees from tree removal services, storms, and word-of mouth. I have about 20,000 bdft of pine, white and red oak, and other mixed hard woods that need to come down around my house right now. I plan to practice on the pine and hopefully do well enough with the oak to sell it. I have a couple hundred acres up near Princeton, WV, but that is a 5 hour+ haul, so I don't think that will be very economical. Thanks for the reply.

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2019, 10:38:43 PM »
Jeep, keep the questions coming.  If you want to avoid the quote, you can hit Reply at the top of the thread.  or if it has been a few threads earlier that you want to comment on, you can use the quote reply and back out all of the quote you do not need and keep what is pertinent. WM now makes a 4 post head. not sure if TK has any mills there but you can call and find out.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline Southside

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2019, 10:41:17 PM »
I probably will not buy any trees. I hope to be able to get trees from tree removal services, storms, and word-of mouth



Just don't make that a "must" as part of your business plan.  "Free" logs are worth exactly what you pay for them in far too many instances.  First there is the tramp metal, golf ball, small children, and grave markers that end up in them (yes I have a log with a grave marker completely surrounded by the wood), but overall it can be very challenging to get quality lumber from yard trees due to the open nature in which they grow, the  reason they are removed (disease, damage, etc) and the complete lack of log grading that they are often bucked by.  Just be flexible to buying quality logs if you want to produce quality, finished lumber like you stated before.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Online doc henderson

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2019, 10:47:05 PM »
You could make a spot for your mill on your land, mill the wood and haul it home to use and or sell.  Now you need a good truck and trailer.  start slow however it works out, and follow the direction you need.  if milling for yourself great, if you get custom jobs great,  if everyone wants live edge slabs great!  I am excited for you to get started.  best regards.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Online WV Sawmiller

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2019, 10:48:53 PM »
Jeep,

  Keep reading, keep asking questions. The biggest complaint I had about my new mill was the WM rep brought me my mill and did a good training session but I did not know enough about the machine or the process to even know what questions to ask. Fortunately their customer service team are very patient and extremely cooperative. They have a service loop where a team comes out every other year and do a complete check up and alignment and they are also great at training on what they are doing and how I need to do.

   When you come to Princeton WV again come see me. You will only be 30 miles away. We'll fry up a good mess of Catfish fillets from Bluestone Lake. Good luck.

Southside,

  We had a monument business when I was growing up. I saw grave markers like you describe. There is a good chance it has the epitath "Gone but not forgotten". I've seen that on graves with trees big enough for saw timber growing out of them. My favorite epitath was common in Norway and just said "Thanks for the help".
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2019, 10:52:53 PM »
Knowing me mine will probably say something along the lines of "Turn around real slowly and look behind you" or "I saw that" - just to mess with folks.  ;D 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2019, 11:06:26 PM »
  I like the comments about stacking. I'd cut more wood here at home now if I had a place to stack it and yes, everything the customer wants is on the bottom of the stack so at least I rotate the positions regularly. ::) How to display your lumber is another big consideration.

    Any lumber I sell is typically a salvage operation from fallen or excess trees I own or sometimes people give them to me. Warning - free logs aren't free! It is easy to get more time and handling costs in them than they are worth. I don't buy logs and just finished my first sizable saw on shares job now I have to go pick it up and stack it. I already had to restack one pile to make room for this.
I plan to get most of my inventory from salvage but I'll need to learn to be selective about what I take on. I expect initially most of my income will be from sawing at customer locations. Later, I hope to run a kiln or two for hire, and one for myself. I think two solar kilns and one Nyle L200M should do. After that, maybe moulding, planing, etc.

Online doc henderson

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2019, 11:08:38 PM »
Knowing me mine will probably say something along the lines of "Turn around real slowly and look behind you" or "I saw that" - just to mess with folks.  ;D
your poor wife... :o :o :o :D :D :D
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Questions from a Prospective Sawyer
« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2019, 11:20:47 PM »
I look at it like this.  Milling is a good way to make some money, but a hard way to make a living.  
 
I dont like employees either.  Some roller conveyor will help at the mill.  Look into getting a mill that has dragback.  When mobile, charge hourly to encourage the owner to provide an off bearer.  
 
You may find someone who can work part time ish on a contract basis.  Suggest them to the owner of the logs at mobile jobs and have the owner pay them as a contractor.  Not your employee, but a big step up at the same time.  Saves you a ton of paperwork!  
 
Ive also heard people wish they had gotten the kiln first and just custom dried others lumber.  A possible niche to consider.
I am lucky in that I will not have to rely on the mill business as my primary source of income. I will definitely look into getting some roller conveyors. Although I am leaning toward the TK 2200 right now, I have been unable to find much information on the dragback feature, other than cost. There is a small section in the manual on the dragback, but no good pictures or diagrams are included. I have also been unable to locate any videos of the TK dragback design in operation. Before I commit to a purchase, I will see it in operation, even if I have to fly to their facility to see it. Maybe I'll take a video and post it. Anyway, I like the execution of the dragback on both the WM and the Cooks and I hope the TK is comparable. It is definitely a feature I will require.


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