Can I pay a timber company to thin my small pine stand?

[anthonyz]

 I bought a 12 acre pine stand last spring. It was planted in 2001 and has never been thinned. I've come to realize that 12 acres is way too small to interest any foresters or timber companies. Just not enough timber to be worth bringing out their equipment. My long-term goal for the land is just to have a forest for recreation with nice big pines on it.

I've resorted to calling land clearing companies to see if they can thin it, but I hate the thought of wasting the lumber by just mulching it. I also am not 100% confident that a land clearing company would do a thinning properly. It's also very expensive.

So my question is, have any of you ever paid a timber company or some other outfit to thin your stand?
Any advice? I need to get 25 - 30% of my trees out of there to make room for the others to grow.


 
 
 
 

 

[Southside]

Pine pulp and chips are almost impossible to get rid of right now around here, which would be the market for your timber at this stage 

I see no reason you can't pay someone with a feller buncher, a grapple skidder, and a whole tree chipper to come in. The issue is the cost, off the top of my head I would guess you are looking at $400 / acre to blow the chips into a big pile.  From there you could compost them and in a few years have quite the pile of potting soil, don't know if that's a solution or not for you. 

[anthonyz]

Thanks. That's sort of what I was figuring (that I would have to go the mulching route). So, I will keep calling land clearing companies.

The land clearing company that came out charges $1750 per day for a skidsteer mulcher and 1 guy with a chainsaw. He thought he might be able to do 2 acres a day. I'll get more estimates. Maybe get closer to that $400 per acre.

[Old Greenhorn]

There isn't much info in your profile to help figure out what your situation or resources are. Can you cut, do you have a mill? Any equipment? Perhaps family. friends, neighbors might have something. 
 If you could get a forester to mark it for you, you could do it yourself over time with simple equipment. Those trees look just big enough to make some small 4/4 boards out of. I 'manage' my neighbors 12 acre lot, but the ground is not nearly as nice as yours, nothing is flat. The trees are wildly mixed, hardwoods and soft. You can do it if you wrap your brain around it. It is slow, but it is a plan with low cost, just sweat.

[Texas Ranger]

small loggers are getting rare in Texas, but, a row thin on a tract this size should draw interest.  You may not make much, but you will get a jump in growth.  Keep looking.

[thecfarm]

No help from me,but I see alot of firewood for my OWB. I know TX does not get that cold. ;D ;D I play on my land,just for firewood now. Well logs later and right now too.

[anthonyz]

Thanks for the reply Texas Ranger. I can seems to get anyone interested in doing a row thin. I had one forester from this forum come out and look at the property (Very nice guy). Unfortunately, he said he would only get about 18 loads off the property and really needs about 30 loads to make it worthwhile financially. I was thinking of calling him back and asking if I just let him have the timber he cut if that would help his economics.

[WDH]

I am with Tex.  Don't give up.  There are a couple of pulpmills within hauling distance of you.  I believe that there is a pulp mill in Texarkana. 

[anthonyz]

Thanks Old Greenhorn. I've had trouble getting foresters to even call me back to say that they aren't interested. Maybe I need to approach them differently and say that I want to hire them to consult so that they know I'm not trying to bring them in on a thinning that won't make them any money.

I have thought of trying to do it myself, but this is just a weekend place for me. I live about 2.5 hrs away during the week. It took me all weekend just to put a hog fence around my deer feeder if that tells you anything about my "abilities." ;)

[Texas Ranger]

What Danny said, maybe contact the mill buyers.

[Southside]

The land clearing company that came out charges $1750 per day for a skidsteer mulcher and 1 guy with a chainsaw. He thought he might be able to do 2 acres a day. 

I would like to see a set up like that move through that much fiber in a day. A purpose built 300 HP carrier I can see, but a skid steer,  I would want to have a "will not exceed" clause in the contract. 

[Weekend_Sawyer]

When I bought my property back in 07 I asked the local forester if someone could clear an acre of my bottom land that had some large poplars on it.

He said it would be hard to find someone to do such a small job.
A year later he called me saying a logger was going to be working in the area and would take on my small job. I didn't make much but I got my acre cleared.
It's a nice deer feed patch now.

Jon

[Ron Scott]

Yes, it's possible to get your small pine stand thinned in a reasonable manner to meet your objectives with some advanced planning and timing as stated by others here. Seek out the services of your local Conservation District Forester or a professional Consulting Forester serving your area.

[anthonyz]

Thanks Ron. I've actually called numerous consulting foresters. Most didn't call back. The ones who did all told me that they weren't interested and recommended that I call a few timber companies directly. When I had no luck interesting any timber companies, I called the Texas A&M Forest Service. I'd worked with them to develop a Forest Management Plan and get our property certified as a Family Tree Farm when we first purchased it. They told me that it was unlikely that I would find any foresters interested in working with such a small property. I'm getting discouraged, but not giving up.

Almost all of the properties around mine have already been harvested. Otherwise, I would try to team up with one of them and see if we could interest a forester in doing ours together.

[barbender]

I don't know the value of your stumpage, but I would think you should be able to find someone to cut it. It just depends on how much of a hurry you're in. If you need it done "right now", you'll probably end up paying someone. If you can wait and keep looking, you might find someone to harvest it for free or even pay a bit for the wood. Here's what you have to look at from the logger's perspective- he has 3 or 4 pieces of equipment he has to move to your job. Aside from the cost of actually moving it, those machine are also out of production for probably a day each way. His costs may well be in the $3000-$4000 range. If you're in a rush, I would suggest contacting a reputable logger, tell him what you have, and start out by offering the wood to him for free. If he doesn't bite at that, ask him what it would take on your end on top of the wood to make it worth his while. Most loggers I know don't really like cutting landowner's wood if they can't pay for it, they feel like they are taking advantage of folks. Explain to him your only other option is a land clearing company. At least with a logger, the timber is worth something that can defer the cost of the total operation some. You should be able to find someone to do it. Just keep in mind they're in it to make money. 

[anthonyz]

Thanks barbender. I don't need it cut immediately. I am concerned about waiting too long though. I'm new to all of this and one of the articles I was reading by a forester said that he generally recommends NOT thinning if you have a stand that's 20+ years old and has never been thinned because the growth potential is limited at that point and the root balls are so constrained that the remaining trees can easily fall in a storm. 

https://www.timberlandadvisors.com/thinning-pine-for-profit-health-and-wildlife/

I don't want to miss my window to be able to thin it and get maximum growth from the remaining trees. 

I welcome other opinions about what the forester states in the article if you disagree.

[barbender]

In general, I suspect he is right on the 20 year first thinning limit on southern pine (in the slow growing north, we are usually around 30-35 years for a first thinning). However, your site and timber will determine if that is the case for you. If it was planted with a low density, for instance, it would push out the age you could thin at. Even with standard density, you could probably still just take out corridors on the first thin to open it up a bit. Some of these other fellas on here are literal experts on southern pine management, I am not. They can give you better advice on the way it's done down there.

[Woodpecker52]

I would say call them up and say thin it and its yours free route.  Sad but very few loggers now and the ones around require volume to justify even a nod.  If it was mine I'd get a small manual mill and tractor and do some self sawing.

[Claybraker]

I don't want to miss my window to be able to thin it and get maximum growth from the remaining trees.

I welcome other opinions about what the forester states in the article if you disagree.

There's maximum growth and something the gubmint ain't figured out how to tax yet is pride of ownership, aesthetic value, few other factors. In my short life I've seen too many folks get in a big hurry. Guilty of that myself more than once when it was almost closing time. Patience grasshopper.

[livemusic]

First thought... when you call someone and leave a message, do NOT say how many acres you have.

Second... I have a thread on this site about a tract like yours, except it's not near 20 years old, it's less than 15 years. What I had considered doing was clearcutting patches here and there and thinning the rest to, say, 60 trees/acre. Goal being to end up with a mosaic pattern on the land, most of it clearcut but some pine patches with the 60/acre. Let it seed itself, hardwoods will come back naturally. If you do this, it probably won't cost anything and you might net a profit. Then, you'd have a tract that would become visually appealing and you could enjoy the wildlife. If I were to do this, I would have them thin the pines in the parts you are going to keep pine such that it is NOT in rows... just a random pattern of keeper trees so that it looks like a natural pattern rather than in rows. I hate rows! I understand why they do it but it sucks visually. Aesthetics matter a lot to me but I'm not in it for profit.

OTOH, if you are one who simply wants a pretty pine plantation and doesn't care about hardwoods, ever, have them thin the heck out of it to leave 60/acre. Or I guess it could be even less density.

[Mad Professor]

Not much value in the culled trees.

Why not just go in with a small chainsaw and girdle the trees to a lower density and let nature take care of things.

[Okefenokee_D]

Looks like Loblolly Pine. Generally, I would wait til a logger is logging nearby and offer that they can have the wood if they thin it for you.

Pulpwood prices have dropped here in Georgia due to the drought.

Guy I work with use to work with Texas A&M Forestry. He says their pulpwood is lower than ours over here in Georgia.

[WDH]

There are at least 12 pulpmills in Georgia.  The pulpwood prices here are among the highest in the US South. 

[Texas Ranger]

The Texas Forest Service has a program that pays for thinning plantations to stave off "southern pine beetles".  Contact them and see if you qualify, you get payment that may make it worth while to you and a logger.

[timberking]

Pine beetle money is already used up.  About like any program of this sort, apply a year ahead.  I hate I can not help him but just don't have any thing bought close by.  Plus, were are still trying to catch up on lost time due to rain.