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Author Topic: white cedar seed  (Read 724 times)

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Offline trapper

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white cedar seed
« on: September 06, 2019, 09:47:19 AM »
My white cedar trees around the yard have a lot of seed this year.  When is the proper time to harvest them?  Hoping to get some started in low areas at my place.
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Offline saskatchewanman

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2019, 03:50:00 PM »
Soon I would think. The cones will turn brown before drying and opening to release seed.

Offline Clark

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2019, 09:53:58 PM »
As the cones ripen they turn from a greenish yellow to more and more brown. You should be fine collecting them now. I did the same thing several years ago when I ran across a cache a squirrel had created. Dried the seed in my basement, sorted out most of the cone parts and scales, stratified the seed in my fridge and planted the next spring. Had very good success and have about 50 cedar that I need to transplant this fall. 

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Offline wisconsitom

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 12:50:43 PM »
Trapper, this seems to be happening in many parts of WI.  Both here in Fox Valley (Appleton area) and where my land lies, in central Oconto County, some 60 miles more or less due north, white-cedar is generally coning heavily.  I noticed up at land that those trees more interior to stand(s) feature less cones than do outlying ones.

I can never believe the ease with which this species' seeds germinate.  Were it not for deer overpopulation and just general lack of proper seedbed conditions, ie. exposed mineral soil from burns or other....it would easily be all over the place in areas where seed source exists.

In fact, not here in A-town, but up at land again, it does seem to easily volunteer in oldfield sites.

Balsam firs are also loaded with cones this year.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 07:14:47 AM »
I think cedar germination is actually low even in ideal conditions, somewhere around 30 % if I recall the literature. But the thing is, they produce a lot of seed and often, so by volume they are successful germinating. I have cedar regen by the thousands per acre, but the seed is blowing off neighboring mature stands or individuals. And the seed does not go far from source. I have seen large cuts where distance from seed source is a factor. Lots on the cut edges, but very few out in the cut and sometimes those large cuts are raspberry and goldenrod until hand planted. We have hardly any deer in my area. I used to have the Ontario seed manual, no idea where it is at now. But it had some germination numbers based on statistics. After one year on the forest floor they are no longer viable. Exposed mineral soil or nurse logs have better germination on upland sites and on northern exposures. But decayed logs and stumps have the best survival, and elevated microsites (ground with pits and mounds). Plant on the mounds, the pits will usually flood the seedlings seasonally. A couple pieces of literature to consult. :)

https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr_nrs98.pdf

http://www.cif-ifc.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Cedar_practices_CNFER.pdf
Move'n on.

Offline wisconsitom

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2019, 08:25:09 AM »
I put up a shed on my site last week and the resulting topsoil that had to be stripped was spread out over an area.  Then yesterday, I took three 5-gallon buckets of white-cedar seeds, cone scales, and assorted trash I had been collecting from some very large trees at my home that produce a lot of seed and flung it out over that bare ground in this late-fall season.  My expectation is that this will provide necessary stratification, and that as has been true elsewhere, the presence of bare ground will enable significant seed germination.  The ground surface is lumpy-bumpy with many good germination sites.  We'll get some trees out of that.  Probably a fairly low percentage of the actual seed will germinate, but with perhaps several thousand seeds, this will be sufficient.

I like to say that that land "sprouts white-cedar" when left to its own devices.  I find them out in the middle of my unplanted field area, volunteering.  White pine is the same way there.  White pine and white-cedar come up readily from wind-blown seed.  Just 60 miles away and due south here in A-town, you'd get a box elder or a cottonwood...but up there, the volunteers are all good stuff.

Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2019, 04:28:01 PM »
Don't forget winter on wind driven snow. It helps with spruce seed, so I suspect most any softwood. At any time during the winter I can find spruce seed in the snow on top. They have a bigger wing than cedar and lighter than white pine. White spruce will fill in an old abandoned field around here provided it is not too wet. Cedar will come in to, I find little cedar here along the road ditch above the house, nothing significant for numbers. I used to have a couple in the yarn, I suspect the was the seed source. The closest stand of cedar is too far off. There are lots of white spruce. Across the road, if they didn't bush hog it, it would be a white spruce grove now. We don't have a lot of white pine in my area, but one old field that had a big pine on it seeded the place to pine. Up here, it's a hard row to hoe to get decent white pine to grow because of the weavil and blister rust. Most of it regenerating in open conditions is 'cabbage pine'. No one wants that junk. Moose destroy a lot of it. I planted 3500, scattered throughout the woodlot. Moose destroyed most and blister rust killed most of the rest. Might have 2 or 3 good pine left. Planted about 2000 yellow birch once, they were gone in 48 hrs. :D
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2019, 07:20:36 PM »
White spruce? I betcha I can count the spruce on my land on 2 hands. Probably not that few,but not far off either,I have 150 acres too. Now white pine grows like hair on a dog. Yes,it should be thinned too. Pine grows so thick I can be 30 feet from a deer and not be able to see it.
Now that cedar,yes I have many. My MIL wanted some cedar broughs to put in a flower box. Sure I have some,that will be easy to get. I walked over and over my land,yes,I have cedar,but all out of arm's length. I had no idea!! I had to bring a step ladder into the woods to get her some. I naver noticed I did not have many small one. I blame that on deer.
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Offline SwampDonkey

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2019, 02:30:16 AM »
Yes, no scarcity of spruce here because spruce has been the tree that is managed for here for 100 years. Not many spruce on hardwood ground except a few scattered red spruce (and fir) to give the green among the fall hardwood colors. ;D Fir is another tree you need not worry about growing back up here, it's like a weed. :D We have very few deer up here because there is less areas deer can winter in, most of those stands have either been cut or fell down. And yes, they have cut cedar real hard up here. Yet, no one pays much for it. But, I have seen low prices spur more cutting than good prices. People have their figures in reverse. Buy high, sell low. :D
Move'n on.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2019, 06:02:14 AM »
Yes fir is like a weed here too. But so is white pine,on my land.I have mentioned before,fir don't grow the best on my land. Even four inches across show signs of rot.A few places,and I mean a few,it grows well. Does not bother me to cut fir or when I cut another tree and some fir gets damaged. But hate to do the same to the white pine. That grows very well anywheres on my land. Fir is a nice tree for my my OWB. ;D
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Offline wisconsitom

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Re: white cedar seed
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2019, 08:11:36 AM »
Balsam fir generally considered "weed" tree here too, although that's not my description.  At any rate, kind of funny how this convo went from white-cedar to balsam fir, in that those are the very species I'm using to "hide" my new shed.  So, we've got lots of cedar, but very little balsam fir on our land.  I sowed white-cedar seed the other day in that area of disturbed soil and next spring, I plan to plant roughly 100 balsam fir within same area to assist in establishing this thick cover on what amounts to just about the only remaining open land on our site.  This to provide screening of our only neighbor.  Good folks, we're just interested in doing our own thing there, hanging out at the fire pit and so on.

 The blue-green of the fir and the mossy green of the w-c make for a nice scene I think.  One can observe this forest type for miles and miles in the central and eastern U.P. and Door County, WI.

I had to take special measures to grow decent white pine (and Norway spruce) due to the weevil.  On those 2 species, I am making applications of an insecticide with spreader/sticker, to just the top leader and associated areas of these trees, in early spring before bud break, to limit this damage.  It has worked well, but would not be feasible in a larger operation.  As it is, mine are off to a great start.  Neighboring properties showcase many "white pine bushes".


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