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Author Topic: What to charge?  (Read 1348 times)

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Offline Cartwright

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2019, 04:41:46 PM »
Thanks for all the information about this. I got the logs for $200 a thousand and it's going under an old stage coach depo  so the grading aspect is just to be structurally sound. No inspection on it either so $1.50 a board foot don't seem bad to me. I just feel sorry for the man that's got to put it under the building. Man told me it's sitting on a rock foundation really close to the ground. 
Wood-Mizer LT50HDD47-RA
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Volvo L30 compact  wheel loader
Ford CL65 skid steer
'09 F250 Super Duty Powerstroke 
Stihl ms391, 390, 029

Online Don P

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2019, 05:07:06 PM »
 :D That's generally my job.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2019, 07:57:40 PM »
I did stuff like that for years loved the challenge and the feeling when the job was finished. But thats one reason I have no knees.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Online Don P

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2019, 10:05:04 PM »
Or shoulders.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2019, 06:39:48 AM »
I pay .40 a bf for the W Oak when I can get it and sell for 2.00 a bf green off the mill with 3" knots in it sometimes. 
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

Offline Cartwright

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2019, 11:53:39 AM »
Now I have a man that wants some 1x14x17' cedar. I told him that wasn't going to happen. Lol
Wood-Mizer LT50HDD47-RA
Eg 200 twin blade edger 25hp gas
Volvo L30 compact  wheel loader
Ford CL65 skid steer
'09 F250 Super Duty Powerstroke 
Stihl ms391, 390, 029

Offline pine

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2019, 01:55:44 PM »
 I got the logs for $200 a thousand
I presume that is $200 per mbf when you write $200 a thousand.  If that is correct I wish I was in your area for buying but glad I am not for selling purposes. 
Utility grade conifer averages $254 mbf out here.
Maple $413/mbf 
Alder $625/mbf
Cedar $1100/mbf

Offline scsmith42

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2019, 04:53:56 PM »
In my opinion, $275 is a little low.  That is 182 bf.  Around here, 2" white oak decking goes for $2.50 off the saw.  That is the alternative use. If I did it, it would be 182 bf x $2.50 = $455.  Don't sell yourself short, that is a one of a kind item and you will not find it at Walmart or the Box stores.  

White oak lumber is the 2nd highest value domestic hardwood in the wholesale commercial market.  Walnut is the most valuable.  If you look at an index of value using last week's Hardwood Market Report selling prices for rough kiln dried FAS grade for the Appalachian area, and you peg the walnut price as 1.0 then here are the value ratios:

Walnut         1.00
White Oak      .63
Soft Maple      .49
Hard Maple     .47
Cherry            .44
Hickory           .40
Ash                .39
Basswood       .33
Yellow Poplar  .33
Red Oak         .32

White oak is a third more valuable than cherry (.63 divided by .44).  Red oak and cherry are in the tank because of the tariff war with China.  They like the red woods.  Exports are down by 47% and this has crushed the cherry and red oak markets.  White oak was never a desired Chinese export.  However, a good bit goes to Europe for wine and spirits barrels.  Also, the fire at the Jack Daniels distillery burned up thousands of white oak whisky barrels that have to be replaced.  

I realize that most of us are not selling tractor trailer load quantities in the wholesale market, but it is smart to understand the market forces and the market prices.  You would not sell your house for a good deal less than the market prices, would you, so why would you do that with your lumber?

I see on Facebook marketplace a flood of lumber for sale from small time hobby sawyers that are selling the lumber dirt cheap, probably for beer money.  Most of it is not dried, and even less is kiln dried or surfaced.  That sure does not help someone like me who is trying to supply a high  grade, professional product.  

I use the Hardwood Market Report to price my lumber.  I do not use the wholesale prices as I am selling retail, but i use them as a guide to figure out what I need to charge if I purchased a tractor trailer load of the lumber, had to maintain equipment and facilities to unload and store it and plane it and inventory it and suffer any degrade or processing loss and spend the time to meet customers and sell it, even as little as one board at a time.  This is similar to the way that other retail businesses operate.  

People go to stores every day and buy products.  The prices for those products are based on what is required to build and support a supply chain, pay for infrastructure and logistics and people, and to provide a return on the investment to make the products convenient and available.  To my way of thinking, lumber is no different.  I am not Lowes or Home Depot, but I am not a charity either.

Sorry about the rant.  Pricing lumber is an important subject to me.
Very well written Danny.
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Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
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and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline scsmith42

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2019, 04:55:37 PM »
Thanks for all the information about this. I got the logs for $200 a thousand 
Id happily buy a full truckload at that price!
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline Cartwright

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2019, 11:18:45 AM »
The $200 per mbf is what I pay for these farmers and tree service guys cause the chance of metal. Price around here now for decent white oak is in $400 to$500 per mbf. 
Wood-Mizer LT50HDD47-RA
Eg 200 twin blade edger 25hp gas
Volvo L30 compact  wheel loader
Ford CL65 skid steer
'09 F250 Super Duty Powerstroke 
Stihl ms391, 390, 029

Offline customsawyer

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Re: What to charge?
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2019, 12:19:14 PM »
If I was selling this timber it would be $3.25/bf. For 2X white oak for flooring trailers I charge $2.50/bf. Anything over 16' in length gets an additional $0.25/bf for each 2' of added length. Anything over 10" in width gets an additional $0.25 and I would add another $0.25/bf for the thickness. So if you add everything together I would be at $3.25/bf. There would be a strong chance that I would add another $.075/bf. just to make it a nice round number (also to insure that I wouldn't get the job, but if I did, I would get paid). Then you would have to make sure that the customer knew the risks they are taking using a green timber under the house.
How much is the house going to settle as this timber dries and shrinks? I don't want to be liable for that kind of repair bill.
Two LT70s and to much other support equipment to mention.
www.thecustomsawyer.com


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