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Author Topic: What woods where  (Read 1390 times)

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Offline Sedgehammer

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What woods where
« on: October 22, 2019, 10:05:21 AM »
Building a new house as some of you know. Having to decide what woods where. any and all inputs would be most helpful.

Rafter tails and exterior porch exposed rafters are all 2x8. Rafter tails will be scabbed on to roof truss due to being exposed and truss material isn't.
Doug fir. Western cedar or eastern red cedar are the wood choices. All will be stained with ready seal dark walnut.
DF is $1.72 per lf including drying and is on a mountain in CO. 11 hours away
WC is $4.40 per lf and is 10 miles away. Might be able to get cheaper, once I submit full material list
ERC is around $3 per lf depending what lengths exactly.

So based on that rough outline, which way would you go?

Ceiling decking interior and exterior. As above, rafter tails are exposed, so ceiling decking is exposed. Will all be T&G and V grooved. Choices are SYP, DG and pre-finished white pine (interior only). For exterior would need to finish it our selves.
SYP is $1.30 per lf including drying down to 12% moisture from 19%. Is 2 hours away
DF is $1.71 per lf and is on the same mountain as the rafter tails
WP is about $1 per lf. Will need 5/8 OSB on top of it, so roof steel fasteners on porches don't show through. That adds another $0.50 per sq ft on top of that.

So which ya guys think on this?

Offline alan gage

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2019, 11:37:31 AM »
The volume you need will come into play. What makes sense cost-wise for 250bf might not make sense if you're buying 2000bf.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Offline Don P

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2019, 12:13:04 PM »
I'm glad you got hooked up with some good engineers.
I consider ERC to be superior in decay resistance to WRC but strength of materials also needs to be looked at.
 Part of this to me would depend on the attachment detail. Typically when I've scabbed on tails it isn't for exposed interior trusses, the tails were 1/3 outboard and 2/3 inboard of the wall. This is really part of the discussion with the designer.


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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2019, 03:27:09 PM »
agreed, thanks
Gotcha on the ERC
The exposed rafter tails get nailed to the I joists above the great room where the big timbered trusses are. The I-joists get nailed to the ceiling decking and the rafter tails get nailed & glued to them. The big timbered truss ends are buried in the metal wall braces. At least that's the thinking thus far.

Offline Don P

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2019, 07:05:03 PM »
Ah, good deal, that oughta work then. If you can get all heartwood in the exposed part, the scab area won't be as critical.
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Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #5 on: October 25, 2019, 09:14:14 PM »
In exterior conditions you have to consider what will get wet and use the most rot resistant there.  

If you're in an area with boring bees, don't use a softwood outside.  I've been mentioning this alot on the forums because I have a building that I did in Board and Batten white pine, and now it all needs to come off due to the boring bees (something I was not knowledgable about before) and hardie board is going up in it's place.  A hardwood would work as well (except poplar) - like oak, but hardie was the decision.

Other than those considerations, anything on the inside should be what you like the looks of best.  I did white pine T&G with a transparent white stain from permachink that looks great.  No one realizes that it was stained.  The Transparent white takes any yellowing out of it.  The heartwood has oxidized over a couple years and looks good.



 
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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2019, 07:08:13 AM »
Facia I have access to rough cut green treat. Am thinking to use that there. With the rafter tail design we're going with, they'll never really get very wet. I would use the rough cut green treat, but with it's proclivity to move, not so much.

As to carpenter bees. Supposedly allegedly we have, but never have seen.

Really good info on the transparent white stain, but when looking all I see is pickled white #150. Is that the one?  Thanks

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2019, 11:10:34 PM »
yes, that's it.  Note that these are surface films and do not penetrate into the wood like a traditional oil stain or a dye.  I rolled and back brushed the white with deck stain brush.  I sprayed the clear on with a grayco sprayer.  I pre-finished the boards before installation.  I use 2x6 based saw horses(I've shown them a number of times here on the forum) and a screw 8 foot 2x4's to the saw horses to make them wider to hold more boards and do the staining and clearing on them.  Works great and since I have 30 pairs of saw horsed, we almost did all the boards in one round.



 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2019, 09:21:41 AM »
😎

Did you sand any after any coat and how many coats of clear?

This will be going on SYP t&g.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2019, 11:19:47 AM »
Nope, no sanding.  One medium coat of clear, and after it's flashed off 10 to 20 minutes in good weather depending on temp, a second full coat.  With the planed white pine, the stain didn't raise any grain.  There is a certain thickness to the film, so it leave a good surface finish.  I can't remember if the clear is a flat or satin.. I'd have to go look on the bucket.  It dries to the touch pretty quickly -an hour?  But then I do NOT stack them for quite a while to make to they don't stick together.  After they were dry to the touch we stacked them against the wall like this and left them there for a few weeks to a few months until we needed them:


 

 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2019, 11:04:38 PM »
Nope, no sanding.  One medium coat of clear, and after it's flashed off 10 to 20 minutes in good weather depending on temp, a second full coat.  With the planed white pine, the stain didn't raise any grain.  There is a certain thickness to the film, so it leave a good surface finish.  I can't remember if the clear is a flat or satin.. I'd have to go look on the bucket.  It dries to the touch pretty quickly -an hour?  But then I do NOT stack them for quite a while to make to they don't stick together.  After they were dry to the touch we stacked them against the wall like this and left them there for a few weeks to a few months until we needed them:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

So one coat of the paint and 2 coats of clear?

Does that also work for exterior like the exposed soffits we are doing below?

Also, the SYP comes dried to 19% moisture. Do you think it needs to be dried to 9% first?



Offline Don P

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2019, 07:14:03 AM »
Your average EMC is going to be closer to 12%. If you can get it drier there will be less gapping.
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Re: What woods where
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2019, 03:59:39 PM »
Your average EMC is going to be closer to 12%. If you can get it drier there will be less gapping.
Yes, but according to the mill it is dried down to 19% when it leave them. How much shrink in terms of measurements are we talking on width from 19% to 12% you figure with SYP? Also, is 19% ok for the #150 white pickle paint you think if we didn't dry it further? Cost is $0.30 bf. Thanks

Offline Don P

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2019, 06:02:02 PM »
It'll be in the neighborhood of 1/16"-1/8". If you have a shelter you can sticker it under it will reach exterior equilibrium while you frame the rest of the building.

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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2019, 06:21:37 PM »
It'll be in the neighborhood of 1/16"-1/8". If you have a shelter you can sticker it under it will reach exterior equilibrium while you frame the rest of the building.
Yeah, but I also have to put 3 coats of finish on it after it's reached ecm and have all approximate 6,000 sq ft of ready to go in about 2 weeks time frame. If I don't dry it, I'll most likely have to finish it and store it some place that i can leave it for a few weeks. Finding a place to sticker it, I can do that, but to lean it up like Brad did will take a few ft of building. Have to think on that a lil'bit..... as 5 minutes of thinking goes by.... I could just do the main house part, which would be 4,500 st ft, then do the porches after perhaps. Which leads me to my next question.
When framing the great room that has 20' high side walls, would you frame it, then do the lean-to master bedroom on the south and the wrap around porch on the north before putting on the large beam-metal trusses up?
Also, I can get rough cut cca green treated 2 x 8s to use for all the porch trusses and the rafter tails. I know SYP has a proclivity to move, you think one could sticker it, strap it down tight till it could dry for a couple of months before staining it before using it or it would still move too much?

Offline Don P

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2019, 08:34:14 PM »
The 12% was for exterior, what you were asking about above. For interior you would need some heat and time to equalize down to 8 or 9%.

You can screw together finishing drying racks with a number of arms stacked from floor to as high as you can reach and hold a fair amount of wood. Back side down on the arms, pretty face up.

I would have to know the building better to have an idea on the order of assembly I would use.

If you can pick through and buy some extras I've successfully air dried treated on the jobsite.
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Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2019, 11:00:08 PM »
The 12% was for exterior, what you were asking about above. For interior you would need some heat and time to equalize down to 8 or 9%.

You can screw together finishing drying racks with a number of arms stacked from floor to as high as you can reach and hold a fair amount of wood. Back side down on the arms, pretty face up.

I would have to know the building better to have an idea on the order of assembly I would use.

If you can pick through and buy some extras I've successfully air dried treated on the jobsite.
Prolly just have to kiln dry it then. That-a-way it's all ready to go and less hassle. I'll prolly need as few hassles them as I can find anyways.
Yeah, was thinkin of that too. Then i remembered i have a friend that has 2 pretty big machine sheds that are pretty empty. I could use them.
I hear ya.
How'd you air dry it?
Thanks

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2019, 11:27:53 PM »
Nope, no sanding.  One medium coat of clear, and after it's flashed off 10 to 20 minutes in good weather depending on temp, a second full coat.  With the planed white pine, the stain didn't raise any grain.  There is a certain thickness to the film, so it leave a good surface finish.  I can't remember if the clear is a flat or satin.. I'd have to go look on the bucket.  It dries to the touch pretty quickly -an hour?  But then I do NOT stack them for quite a while to make to they don't stick together.  After they were dry to the touch we stacked them against the wall like this and left them there for a few weeks to a few months until we needed them:

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

How would that do on the exterior you think and since it only lays on top like what it is, paint, any chance in it peelin?

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2019, 10:15:47 PM »
Sorry, been out cutting Osage From sun up to sundown the last two days.

For the transparent white stain, we rolled it on with a roller, and then backbrushed it with a 5 inch natural bristle deck stain brush.  The clear was spray 1 tack coat and a full wet coat.  Sometimes I might have put another coat if it didn't look right.  You've got to let it tack off between coats.  Tack off means the surface flashes off so it's not liquid wet, but it's still very tacky.  If you spay another coat on top of a wet liquid coat, you'll just run it/flood it.  Once the previous coat is tacky, it will give something for the next coat to grip to.

I have no idea about the outdoor use products. I suggest you consult with Permachink.  They seem to be in the know for protecting outside log cabin logs.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Sedgehammer

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Re: What woods where
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2019, 10:13:09 AM »
Sorry, been out cutting Osage From sun up to sundown the last two days.

For the transparent white stain, we rolled it on with a roller, and then backbrushed it with a 5 inch natural bristle deck stain brush.  The clear was spray 1 tack coat and a full wet coat.  Sometimes I might have put another coat if it didn't look right.  You've got to let it tack off between coats.  Tack off means the surface flashes off so it's not liquid wet, but it's still very tacky.  If you spay another coat on top of a wet liquid coat, you'll just run it/flood it.  Once the previous coat is tacky, it will give something for the next coat to grip to.

I have no idea about the outdoor use products. I suggest you consult with Permachink.  They seem to be in the know for protecting outside log cabin logs.
No probs. Which you going to use the Osage for?
Talked to permachink. That's prolly not an option. Requires a re-cover with the sealer every so often. So back to using urethane. Prolly a spar urethane. 


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