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Author Topic: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures  (Read 7873 times)

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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #240 on: November 26, 2019, 05:13:03 PM »
The 35 for crosscut will pull side to side and cause a ripple in the wood, 10 will not pull as much. Like a ripping blade in a table saw there is no need to have a angle on the tooth for rip cuts.

I ended up sharpening my ripping chain at 0 it cut the smoothest and there was no need to reset the grinder for each side, I was using .404 skip tooth harvester chain with 50 thousand depth of cut on the rakers (16 horsepower) so it was really grabby and with a 35 tooth angle it would leave a 1/8" deep ripple on the wood.

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #241 on: November 26, 2019, 05:39:34 PM »
For hand filing for getting all the angles (what ever angle you choose) the same I was using a bar mount filing guide. It lets you set the angle, file height and has a stop to get all your teeth the same length. With this and a raker depth guide you can get your chains to cut really well right to the last bit when the teeth start breaking off.

Not sure what brand the guide was but a quick search shows poor reviews for the Oregon ones with complaints of flimsy, too much plastic. I see the Granberg one looks all metal.

https://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint-low-profile/

Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #242 on: November 26, 2019, 06:35:35 PM »
For hand filing for getting all the angles (what ever angle you choose) the same I was using a bar mount filing guide. It lets you set the angle, file height and has a stop to get all your teeth the same length. With this and a raker depth guide you can get your chains to cut really well right to the last bit when the teeth start breaking off.

Not sure what brand the guide was but a quick search shows poor reviews for the Oregon ones with complaints of flimsy, too much plastic. I see the Granberg one looks all metal.

https://granberg.com/product/g106b-file-n-joint-low-profile/

Sweet! I just placed an order for one, should arrive Tuesday.  Much as I want to be that guy that gets amazing results filing free hand I think a good jig would be better and the price on this one is right. 

Also, thanks for the info on the angles. I think I understand what you're saying about ripples/waves in relation to cutter angle. 

Thanks for posting the info!

Brandon 
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #243 on: November 26, 2019, 07:43:35 PM »
I found a picture of an early board before I started to change the chain angle that shows the ripples (for lack of a better description), it is a corner board on our backwoods camp. I took the picture to show a friend the bear tooth and claw marks in the board. 




Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #244 on: November 26, 2019, 08:00:04 PM »
I found a picture of an early board before I started to change the chain angle that shows the ripples (for lack of a better description), it is a corner board on our backwoods camp. I took the picture to show a friend the bear tooth and claw marks in the board.


(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Ok, I see what you're talking about. You're waves are a bit more consistent than mine :) but I have the same thing. 

Hopefully with the jig I can get more consistent sharpening angles and tooth lengths (assuming I don't hit something :( )  It's not such a bit deal when cross cutting to fell a tree or buck a board but I'm starting to think it'll be a bit more important to me when it comes to milling as I move forward and work to improve my skills.

Brandon 
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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #245 on: November 26, 2019, 08:09:10 PM »
I was pulling the saw through the log with a boat winch so it made a more consistent pattern.

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #246 on: November 27, 2019, 02:15:42 AM »
Ultimately I resorted to clamping the bar in the vise and used a bungie cord to provide tension to the chain.
 
I just set the chain brake and file several teeth.  Release it, move the chain and repeat.
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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #247 on: November 27, 2019, 09:39:04 AM »

Anyone got thoughts or can explain why the 10deg angle is better for ripping than the 35?

Brandon
I have been meaning to respond to this, but I knew it would take some time, and I finally have a little. I mentioned some of the background of these comments in another thread post I made a few minutes ago (would like some advice in Sawmills and Milling ) so I won't repeat that stuff here.
 In understanding how a tooth cuts it helps to remember that the tooth is pushing against the wood, while at the same time the wood is pushing back (resisting), this goes on until one of them wins (hopefully the tooth wins) and a chip is formed. Now with that picture in your head, look at how the tooth approaches the wood. If there is a 35 angle on the front of the tooth, that means that when the wood resists, the tooth slips off to the side a little until it builds enough force to lift a chip off, and then it begins to cut a little freer until it starts the process on the next chip. This process is repeated over and over by every tooth. The more side angle you have on the tooth face, the more side deflection you will get. Now in a tooth form with 0-10 of front angle, this 'side load' is greatly reduced or eliminated (0). Because you are cutting WITH the grain, you have continuous contact with solid wood (as opposed to cutting and breaking fibers in a crosscut) so you will get those long noodle like chips.
 I am not sure if I explained this clearly, but that's how the tooth cuts. I hope this may have been slightly helpful to somebody.
Tom
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Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #248 on: November 27, 2019, 10:55:28 AM »

Anyone got thoughts or can explain why the 10deg angle is better for ripping than the 35?

Brandon
I have been meaning to respond to this, but I knew it would take some time, and I finally have a little. I mentioned some of the background of these comments in another thread post I made a few minutes ago (would like some advice in Sawmills and Milling ) so I won't repeat that stuff here.
 In understanding how a tooth cuts it helps to remember that the tooth is pushing against the wood, while at the same time the wood is pushing back (resisting), this goes on until one of them wins (hopefully the tooth wins) and a chip is formed. Now with that picture in your head, look at how the tooth approaches the wood. If there is a 35 angle on the front of the tooth, that means that when the wood resists, the tooth slips off to the side a little until it builds enough force to lift a chip off, and then it begins to cut a little freer until it starts the process on the next chip. This process is repeated over and over by every tooth. The more side angle you have on the tooth face, the more side deflection you will get. Now in a tooth form with 0-10 of front angle, this 'side load' is greatly reduced or eliminated (0). Because you are cutting WITH the grain, you have continuous contact with solid wood (as opposed to cutting and breaking fibers in a crosscut) so you will get those long noodle like chips.
 I am not sure if I explained this clearly, but that's how the tooth cuts. I hope this may have been slightly helpful to somebody.
Tom
OG, thanks for the detailed explanation! This helps a lot and clarified a number of things for me.
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Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #249 on: December 03, 2019, 09:51:32 AM »
Haven't really done much on the milling front, it keeps snowing here. I don't mind working in the snow and cold but I don't feel like cleaning up sopping wet sawdust, sounds unpleasant to me. I may have to get over than though  :D

I had a couple days off last week with the holiday and was mostly unproductive but I did work on my basement. My sons room is almost drywalled and ready for mudding. I'm going a bit slow around the window as I've never framed in a window that has cement around it so I'm taking my time to try and do it right. I'd hate to have to redo it because the drywall soaked up moisture from the cement or things settled wrong. I'm pretty sure I've figured out how I'm going to do it and will get started on it tomorrow. I'll have to post a few pics even though it's not milling related. 

Funny story though, my kids kept thinking all the firewood and logs I was getting was so I could finish the basement  :D  Now that I have a milling attachment I guess I could use some for that but don't have any plans to at this moment. 

The sharpening jig is supposed to arrive today, early Christmas to me!! I'll take some time to be rediculously meticulous in sharpening a couple of my chains for milling. I'm thinking I'll have a few for milling (3 or 4 eventually I hope that way if I find treasures with them I can quickly swap out and keep going) a couple that are sharpened meticulously for cross cutting and then a few that are for felling and other things where the cut quality (ie smoothness) just doesn't matter and I can resharpen in the field as needed. It'll give me something to putter with while the weather is cold and I'm waiting for money for the supplies to finish the basement. I also think I'll pull my jack planes out of storage and hope they are still in good condition and play around a bit with flattening the maple I cut, wow about 6 months ago. How the time flies when you're having fun with man glitter  8) 8)

What has me thinking about cut quality on the cross cuts is I was contacted by a lady who wanted to rent some cookies for her sons wedding. I posted a listing on the local version of CL indicating I was interested in logs for milling and to contact me. I explained I was a hobbyist chainsaw miller, no I won't cut down the tree but once it's on the ground I'd be happy to work with it, etc. I'm sure I could do a better job on the ad but it was a start. So far no real takers BUT I'm guessing the lady wanting the cookies put two and two together that I would be using the stuff for crafts and might have cookies lying around. I don't and she needed them by this weekend and as much as I'd have liked to oblige I decided it wasn't worth the rush/stress and likely inability to get a product out that I was ok with. BUT it got me thinking about cutting and drying cookies and other things that are popular with weddings, parties etc. 

I searched the forum and also google and found some interesting stuff. Two methods I may try that I read about. First is using denatured alcohol, soak the cookie in it and the alcohol displaces the water but doesn't cause cracking. The second is soaking the cookie in a sugar bath solution, I'm assuming the sugar is soaked up and takes the place of the water which would reduce shrinking and hopefully reduce cracking. I like both of these ideas as I think they'd both be food safe/nontoxic. I read about using PEG and several other ideas but the two I mentioned seem like the easiest for me to start with. I also read that cutting cookies at an angle so the grain isn't exactly 90deg to the cut helps. I'd finish the cookies with Tung oil or uerathane. 

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #250 on: December 03, 2019, 09:58:00 AM »
sing denatured alcohol, soak the cookie in it and the alcohol displaces the water but doesn't cause cracking

For alcohol, anti-freeze is supposed to be good (but toxic).  I think I read you could use RV anti-freeze (used in the water system) that is non-toxic and not too expensive.  Might be worth a try.
John Sawicky

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SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/32" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #251 on: December 03, 2019, 11:00:43 AM »
7 or 8 years ago I was going to build a nice wood working table. Got the top done, no longer have it but along the way I had purchased or inherited a number of tools. They've been in this tote since then



Pulled them out, they look to be in as good a condition as when I packed them away  8)  Even found I had a few I don't remember buying, bonus!



Now the hard part, where to store them all so they are easy to get to but out of the way. Good thing I still have a bunch of those locust stickers I cut, they worked great for the chisels



Not sure where everything will end up ultimately but for now they can hang out in the "man cave". Who knows, might even keep me focused on finishing the basement sooner  :)

That's likely all the progress I'll make today as I have an interview in an hour, wish me luck!

Brandon
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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #252 on: December 03, 2019, 05:53:20 PM »
not sure if antifreeze would work.  it is ethylene glycol, and PEG is polyethylene glycol.  hooking all the molecules together makes it non toxic.  PEG has diff. concentrations, and dictates how long it has to soak.  I have used it, but expensive.  that is why denatured from Menards for 32 bucks for 5 gallons is how I have gone.
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Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #253 on: December 04, 2019, 08:15:42 PM »
First interview went well, well enough that I have the second one tomorrow  8) 8)  I'll know by Friday end of shift if I get the position, gotta love when they move fast  ;D

More milling related, got the Granberg sharpening jig. Took me a bit to figure out how to set it up and use it. It's not complicated and the instructions are pretty clear... clear enough that once I'd done it wrong for a bit and was thinking "dang I wish they'd have done this or that" and I looked at the pics real close it started to click. Seriously, not dogging them mostly poking fun at myself. I sharpened one chain to a 0deg, took a couple hours to do but all the cutters are the same size so I'm excited to see how it works. Going forward I'll reserve that chain for any milling that needs to be really nice since and I'll start converting cross cut chains as they need to be sharpened. Here's a pic of the jig



Well worth the money IMO.

Also worked on my boys room, nearly done with hanging the drywall. Started gluing the insulation around the window, should be able to frame it in here soon and get the rest of the drywall up.



All in all a decent day. Hopefully the weather clears enough soon so I can mill another of those logs.

Brandon 
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Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #254 on: December 06, 2019, 09:06:54 AM »
For anyone following the sub story, I had my second interview yesterday and I feel like I was prepared and did the best I've ever done on an interview. I feel like it was a solid showing of who I am and what I can bring to that position and I honestly think I'd do very well (doesn't everyone who applies? ;)). I was told they were going to have an answer by the end of the day... and then at end of day got an email saying they were going to have to delay giving an answer till next week  :( :(  AAARGH. I'm pretty sure I know why they delayed, some more candidates were applying that they really wanted to consider. A couple of them are fellow team mates so while I'm disappointed with the delay I'm glad my team mates are getting a chance. So now I get to wait...  :P

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #255 on: December 06, 2019, 10:43:58 AM »
I have been following that line and wish you the best of luck. Be happy it's not the company I worked for where it can take 4 week to hire an entry level person and over 6 months to hire management level. Sounds like your dealing with a fairly clear cut process anyway. It also sounds like this is for an internal position within your current company?
Anyway, best of luck. Find something to occupy your mind while you wait. Go hang some sheet rock or something. ;D
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Offline ManjiSann

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #256 on: December 06, 2019, 06:15:06 PM »
They are moving on it fast, I shouldn't complain. I just hate the anticipation  :) :)

It's a temporary position within my current company, they call it a Temporary Development Opportunity. It's a good chance to try something new, learn a bunch of new stuff and possibly it can turn permanent but even if it doesn't, I become that much more skilled. I'm fortunate that I like what I do right now and if I don't get it it's not devastating other than to my ego.

While I feel a bit anxious about it for the most part I'm pretty zen. I guess I really do feel like I did the best I could which is all I can do. I'd be bummed if I didn't get it but I actually am pleased with the prep I did and my overall performance during the interview. 

I'll take your advice and work on my boys room or sharpen some more chains or something. I have no shortage of things I can do... usually just a shortage of ambition  :D :D

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #257 on: December 11, 2019, 04:36:12 PM »
Yesterday I was trying to decide, go and try to pick up more logs or mill the ones I have. I ultimately decided to stay home and mill what I had as the drive to pick up logs was an hour each way and they said it was mostly cottonwood. I'm interested in milling cottonwood but not right now. Too bad though, they had heavy equipment and would have loaded it in the back of my truck for me so I could have had longer logs. Awesome opportunity, not the right time for me. 

So I grabbed my newly sharpened chains and gear and started milling. I will say that Granberg jig is awesome!

I decided to do this log



First cut revealed nice wood



Rolled it on the side and set up for the next cut



Lots of cuts. I really need to get the 36" bar and jig made. I was half an inch to wide so grabbed the spare saw and shaved the side



 I had to do some hack and slash to get it down to fit my set up which I end up regretting later



Here's why I regretted the crappy trim job





The coloring doesn't quite come through in the photo but in person it's really nice. I'm hoping once it dries I can sand and polish it and it'll be amazing

I was plugging along real smooth but ended up developing a rainbow in my cutting. Pretty sure it's due to entering the log and a bad angle. The weather was threatening to turn bad so I decided to go from the other side and just get narrower boards. I hated to lose the pretty figuring in the wood but there was only a couple more boards in it that way so it wasn't a huge loss. I think I ended up with 8 boards with the nice figuring in it. 



Sure cuts faster when you have a narrower log  ;D

Ended up with a lot of usable wood so I'm thrilled



This log did have some of the pith cracking like the other one so I did my best to rotate the log and mill with that in mind. It wasn't perfect but I feel it was an improvement.  All in all a good day  :)
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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #258 on: December 11, 2019, 04:43:23 PM »
Nice looking stuff!  How long would you say it took you to mill that up?  Just curious as I think I could mill that on my band saw mill in half an hour, 45 minutes tops.  And probably 2 or 3 more boards due to the thinner kerf.  Not trying to sway you, but I think a band mill is in your future. ;)
John Sawicky

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Re: Manjisann's Chainsaw Milling Adventures
« Reply #259 on: December 11, 2019, 05:53:01 PM »
Glad the sharpening jig is working out for you!


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