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Author Topic: Logs  (Read 2438 times)

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Offline johnnydeere99

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Logs
« on: November 26, 2019, 11:37:37 AM »
Greetings Group,

I just purchased a new Woodmizer LT35HD, Im new to this, but have run a few cedar logs I had laying around with amazing results. My question is, how are most sourcing their wood? I have a wood lot, but thats another project I hope to get to soon, until then Im looking for logs. I have contacted a few tree guys who have shown interest in dropping things off as they have to pay right now for disposal, but I have yet to see anything show. Anyone have luck other ways?

Thanks

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Logs
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2019, 12:58:47 PM »
Be careful. Eventually you may be better off paying something for logs you can use. Tree men can load up your yard real fast with stuff you don't want.

Offline johnnydeere99

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Re: Logs
« Reply #2 on: November 26, 2019, 01:45:30 PM »
haha thanks for the tip, I did not think about it that way. Luckily I am friends with the guys I have talked to, but I will be leery on future requests. 

Online SawyerTed

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Re: Logs
« Reply #3 on: November 26, 2019, 03:37:58 PM »
A few dollars to offset fuel/time for a tree service to deliver will help them remember you need logs, remember what kind of logs and how long you prefer the logs to be cut.  It also helps them remember not to bring tops and brush. If you are friends with the tree service guys, buy the crew a good lunch.  That goes a long way to getting logs you want.  It works for me.

Grading companies are a good source of logs especially when they have a few trees to remove.  I have good luck with a couple who will call me to come get logs.  They load them if I buck them to length.   In time you will start getting calls from people who will give you logs.

Facebook Marketplace is a good place to look for logs if you can pick them up.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Logs
« Reply #4 on: November 26, 2019, 03:41:44 PM »
Welcome to the Forestry Forum, johnnydeere99 and congrats on the new mill!
~Chuck~
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Offline kantuckid

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Re: Logs
« Reply #5 on: November 26, 2019, 05:40:16 PM »
Knowing your location will go a long ways toward placing full value on your posts. Good luck with your new mill.
Knowing where & how you'll market those logs (once cut) that you don't have yet, is maybe a great first step?
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Logs
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2019, 07:57:41 PM »
   Congrats on the new LT35HD. Ditto on providing your location and more details. Be careful when sawing cedar not to stop up the sawdust chute. It is bad about that. Not a big problem just keep watching to make sure sawdust is coming out and if not stop and clean the fingers at the start of the exhaust hose.
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Offline johnnydeere99

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Re: Logs
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2019, 08:22:50 PM »
Thanks for the tips guys. I’m up here in northern Maine, I’ll work on putting more info in my profile as I go along. Actually just got contacted by one guy today about bringing my tractor to a site with a bunch of logs. I guess I should be more patient.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Logs
« Reply #8 on: November 26, 2019, 09:28:11 PM »
I suppose you got the mill from Ross?
I would like some free logs too for my OWB.  Would save me the time cutting down my trees. But the trees I cut are no good for saw logs.
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Offline offrink

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Re: Logs
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2019, 03:45:15 PM »
While not for the sawmill, we chainsaw mill logs over 36”. Usually they are much bigger (6’wide at the stump and 9’+ where it starts to branch is a bigger one) and they are almost always free because most people don’t have the saw to cut them up for firewood and don’t have the equipment to move/haul it. We had a burr oak that was 60” at the base and 80” where we trimmed it to at 12’. A large front end loader couldn’t Budge it and you could watch the front tires compress about 6”. The operator said the log was easily over 22,000 lbs. That one got slabbed there for 3 days before we could move it. All the logs we pick up are either by driving by or word of mouth. 

Offline johnnydeere99

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Re: Logs
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2019, 05:34:16 PM »
yup got it from Ross, and it looks like you a neighbors? I have a load of logs I am going to pick up on Monday which I am excited about. Looks like Ill have a good amount of wood to work on getting the training wheels off.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Logs
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2019, 07:41:35 PM »
Oh no,Ross is on the bad side of Chesterville. :D :D Or that is what I tell him when I see him. I am on one side of Chesterville,the good side, :D and he's on the other side of Chesterville,the bad side. I own land in two towns and 2 counties.
I had my land logged and they was twitching white pine out of Fayette and bringing into Chesterville. For some reason there was a quarantine on white pine in Kennebec County,none in Franklin where Chesterville is.A phone call to the state forester made it all good.
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Offline Southside

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Re: Logs
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2019, 10:05:57 PM »
I’m up here in northern Maine


Where about?
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Logs
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2019, 10:58:48 AM »
Here's my experience with "free" logs.  I worked with an outfit in Newark, NJ that sourced all their logs from tree guys.  They weren't allowed to charge for the material, as that would have made them a dump site.  Tipping fees were about $135/ton.  So, they got logs in all sorts of shapes, sizes and species.  

The business plan was to use urban logs, at no cost.  They used labor from the local jail, also at a reduced cost.  They would sell lumber to the local market and save money in transportation costs.  Their problem was in production, sales and training the help.

At first, their yard looked fairly decent.  This was their receiving area.  Tree guys came in and dumped things on a pile.  All kinds of different sizes and shapes.  Many logs were shorter than 8', since many tree guys didn't have the necessary equipment to lift longer logs.  There were a few guys that had logging trucks and were stellar suppliers.  But, these piles of logs had to be trimmed, scanned for metal, and sorted.  



  

With a ton of work the yard started to look like this:

 

But, then you'll also have piles of logs that look like this:

 

That's wood waste and scrap logs that were destined for a boiler for kilns that was never built.  The big logs to the right were all shorter than 8', mainly 6-7'.  They were all pretty big.  You need decent sized equipment to move them.  The predominant species was pin oak and sycamore.

Then hurricane Sandy hit.  Suddenly, the influx of logs was overwhelming.  They had to rent even more equipment.  The piles of wood buried the yard.  Eventually, they had to shut off all deliveries, even from the good suppliers.  The entire yard looked like this:



 

There were some nice logs in that pile.  But, there wasn't enough time or area to go through them.  The owners would not sell any logs, which partially led to their downfall.  The amount of metal that got through the metal detectors was also overwhelming.  

Your situation may be a bit different.  You would have to know what your city limitations are.  We had quite a few restrictions.  But, with all the extra work of scanning and trimming, free logs ain't free.  Not to mention the big differential in specie selection.  Sometimes those species are good, sometimes they're not.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Logs
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2019, 08:21:48 AM »
In logs, you generally get what you pay for.  Tree guy logs can sometimes be good and sometimes be very bad.  I’ve never had any long term success getting a steady supply of quality logs from tree guys.  So I couldn’t run a business with that supply.

I buy mine from loggers.   
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Offline johnnydeere99

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Re: Logs
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2019, 10:20:52 AM »
Thanks for all the input gentlemen, Im amazed at the response you can get on this forum. Seems like a great group of people. I will take this knowledge a run with it.

Offline Magicman

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Re: Logs
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2019, 12:15:40 PM »
Im amazed at the response you can get on this forum
This is not the ordinary forum.  The responses that you have gotten are very normal and what you can always expect here on the Forestry Forum. 
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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Logs
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2019, 12:38:53 PM »


I buy mine from loggers.  

Me too. You should see there faces when I tell them As you do, [they better be able to role on there own] :D ;) 

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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Logs
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2019, 06:52:59 PM »
In logs, you generally get what you pay for.  Tree guy logs can sometimes be good and sometimes be very bad.  I’ve never had any long term success getting a steady supply of quality logs from tree guys.  So I couldn’t run a business with that supply.

I buy mine from loggers.  
I went through this years ago. The man power to metal detect and chainsaw work on mostly open grown logs is just too much. For lumber you need logs from the woods cut by loggers.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Logs
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2019, 04:01:43 AM »
Y'ever heard it said there ain't no such thing as a free lunch?
Logs are the same.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Logs
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2019, 08:26:14 AM »
I get so many calls from "non log professionals" who say they have the best logs in the history of the world.  I get calls for people who have tree guys taking trees down while telling them the logs would be worth a fortune.  I get calls from people who just bought 2 acres of land and want to pay it off by selling me gnarly sweet gum and hackberry thinking they are walnut.  I've had tree guys bring me great walnut logs that were, in fact hickory or oak, and were so ugly I'd be embarrassed to burn them as firewood. :D :D

I had a guy call me the other day who had "thousands of veneer grade black walnut" on his couple acre plot, each one with "at least 750 bdft each" and although he knew market price, asked me how much more I was going to pay for them".   What???????

I get so tired of the phone calls of "I have this tree in my front yard, I'm not sure what it is, but its real big and how much are you going to pay me for it when you take it down?"

We have tree "professionals" who call me ups and say they just took down a tree and not know what it is either, but want me to pay for it.  They think every hickory is a walnut, and every cherry is a walnut, and every ash tree a walnut, etc.  I can't understand how they cant actually identify what kind of tree it is.  Its like me going fishing and bragging on the fish I caught in Guntersville Lake and saying, "I think they were tuna."

So not only do I usually only buy logs from professionals, I try to avoid buying from first time newbies.  Nothing against newbies, but I'm not in business of educating them with my money and time, only to have them complain I'm not paying them enough.  I had one guy bring me some pencil walnut logs in his pickup truck bed, and complain when I didn't pay for them because they were too short and too small.  He was so disappointed, saying he figured they would be worth enough to pay off the bank note for that truck, and since I had so many logs why wouldn't I just "be a nice guy and buy his?"  Really?  That one still PO's me.  I told him "I AM a nice guy, but I'm not STUPID.  Do I look like Forrest Gump?"

So, now I tell log selling newbies, and log selling tree guys to gather up a couple loads of logs and take then to any of the big mega mills in this area, and come back when they have some experience and knowledge and then I may deal with them.

I contrast, when buying from log professionals, the conversation goes more like this: "Hey, I need some butt cut white oak logs, stave grade for quarter sawing, 28 inch and better."  They say "OK, I'll stack some up and I'll see you in a week or so."  Much easier.  :D :D  
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Offline K-Guy

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Re: Logs
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2019, 09:25:07 AM »
Do I look like Forrest Gump?"


You are taking a big risk asking that question on here!! ;D
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Offline Southside

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Re: Logs
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2019, 10:07:00 AM »
Do I look like Forrest Gump?


Now that you mention it....:D

I had a customer ask me to come to her property and look at her timber she wanted to sell.  We walk around for maybe 1/2 an hour and are standing in a pine thicket, maybe 18" DBH, nothing else the eye can see.  While leaning against one of the trees she asked stated out loud "Now these are all oaks right?"  

Ummm, errr, how do I begin.....::)
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Re: Logs
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2019, 08:44:39 PM »
I don't look like Tom Hanks.  Tom Cruise maybe.  Or Mel Gibson... :D :D :D
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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Logs
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2019, 05:28:27 AM »
I have always been on the wholesale/commodity side of the business. Pricing is therefore pretty well defined on both the purchase price of logs/timber and sales price of lumber. Years ago I reduced my website to a single photo with no contact information and my standard response to telephone inquiries was basically "no". Dealing with the general public on log transactions is a no win situation. As previously mentioned all such logs and transactions tend to meet one or more  of these criteria;

1. of exceptionally poor quality and form. Cut to the lengths handiest to the seller with no regard to merchantability.
2. Universally thought to be of much higher grade and value than ever existed in any market at any time.
3. Poorly handled and mis-manufactured so as to remove any and all potential value that might have existed prior to butcher.
4. Loaded directly on the floor of a trailer with fenders.
5. Said trailer generally arrives at the busiest time of day and parks directly behind a loader involved in unloading a commercial vehicle.
6. John Q Public then expects all operations to cease so that said high value logs on trailer blocking operations can be appraised.
7. After being schooled by John Q that the logs in question were in fact worth more as firewood, he needed immediate payment. The check of course needed to be in some relatives name as not to have a negative impact on his taxes, social security, unemployment, child support,food stamps etc.
8. And of course the best of all scenarios is a follow up visit by the legitimate owner of said logs who never received payment followed by the deputy Sheriff with an invitation for you and your records to appear in court.

Most likely there are less than a dozen loggers within practical delivery distance of any sawmill. Develop a relationship with a handful. Pay a little more than a commodity price to a one of them. It will be a bargain.

 

Offline WDH

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Re: Logs
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2019, 07:59:40 AM »
YH,

It is not the actor, it is the character, and you sure are a character  ;D.  Anybody who can catch tuna in Guntersville Lake has to be :D.  
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Offline Southside

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Re: Logs
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2019, 08:07:59 AM »
Tuna or Shrimp?  :D
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Offline K-Guy

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Re: Logs
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2019, 08:44:17 AM »
I don't look like Tom Hanks.  Tom Cruise maybe.  Or Mel Gibson...


Red Skelton maybe??!! :D;D
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Re: Logs
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2019, 09:21:15 AM »
Red Skelton maybe??!! :D;D
Getrude or Heathcliff?
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Offline alan gage

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Re: Logs
« Reply #29 on: December 04, 2019, 10:44:46 AM »
I don't look like Tom Hanks.  Tom Cruise maybe.  Or Mel Gibson... :D :D :D
Those guys are way too short. How about Kramer?
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Offline Tom the Sawyer

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Re: Logs
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2019, 06:46:18 PM »
Had a visit yesterday with a local property owner who was having two walnuts cut down (at the City's suggestion).  I don't normally fetch logs but they were close and I told him that I would give him $75 for the two, 8' logs (150bf), if there was no metal stain (not likely).  Today he called to tell me they were down, but he needed $250 because the tree guys told him they were worth much more.  I thanked him, told him I was not interested.  Maybe the tree guys will buy them. :)
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Logs
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2019, 07:00:39 PM »
Tom,

  I totally agree with your response. Too many busy-bodies in the world mess things up for everybody. I'd have also told him they were not worth that to me but I'd be glad to saw them for him at my normal rate and he could process and sell the lumber himself.

  BTW - whatcha wanna bet he calls back in a few months after the logs have already started to check, split, etc to take you up on your original offer?
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Re: Logs
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2019, 07:41:11 PM »
This is rich Tom. I think I would have told him 'no thanks, call me when you need to mow the grass and you can't get anybody to haul them to the dump. I won't charge much for hauling.'
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Re: Logs
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2019, 08:34:20 PM »
Apparently, around here I'm not just the last resort for selling logs, I'm the only resort.  Those logs may lay there until the City threatens him, but I wouldn't go get them now.  Just one of my faults, but if my offer wasn't good enough, we are done.  

It is possible that the logs may end up here.  I don't know who did his tree work but I do buy logs, delivered here, from tree guys, although if it was someone I had bought from before, they would have a more realistic idea as to the value.
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If you call and my wife says "He's sawin logs", I ain't snorin'.

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Logs
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2019, 09:13:07 PM »
   I had a neighbor bring me a load of walnut and wanted me to saw on shares. I was not in a position to do so at the time and offered to saw regular rate. He took them to a neighbor up the road half a mile with an LT10 who said he'd saw them cheaper than my rate. I drove past those logs  for a solid year as they were right next to the road. Finally the neighbor came back and asked me to saw them and I said I would and could even saw on halves if he wanted as my storage issues had improved. He did and I did. I divided the logs and even let him pick his stack since he wanted a mantel out of one of them. We both left happy but the cheap option is not always cheap.

  My wife is a free lance photographer and we vacationed in remote areas of Africa, Mongolia and the Amazon and such. One trick she learned was taking a portable picture printer (Battery powered so we could pack it in) and give people a picture. We made lots of friends and side by side with National Geographic we got access to people's homes they did not. (She got to ride an Asian camel and I rode a yak and got horse milk to drink because we gave a new friend a picture). I don't know how many times busy bodies would interject themselves after we offered to give somebody a picture in exchange for taking a picture of them. The BB would come in and say we needed to pay too which we would not do so often the person wanting the picture got nothing because her "agents" convinced her she should get more so she got nothing.

   I'd have told your seller to go sell his logs to the tree people.
Howard Green
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Re: Logs
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2019, 10:55:14 PM »
I don't look like Tom Hanks.  Tom Cruise maybe.  Or Mel Gibson... :D :D :D
Those guys are way too short. How about Kramer?
Alan
Maybe John Wayne?  

@WDH,  Who, me, a character?  Naw, I’m one of those guys who just naturally blends in with the crowd.   :D
Tom, That’s the kind of guy I’m talking about, or rather don’t even want to talk to, in the first place.  I wouldn’t take those logs for free, except for him to watch me roll them into the burn pit.  
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Re: Logs
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2019, 12:34:18 AM »
Naw, I’m one of those guys who just naturally blends in with the crowd.  


As long as that crowd is composed of NBA players.  :D
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Re: Logs
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2019, 07:34:08 AM »
Here are two characters.



 
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Re: Logs
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2019, 08:17:33 AM »
YEP   

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Re: Logs
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2019, 09:00:58 AM »
I like that peg legged pirate guy.  Maybe if he had a sawmill he could saw himself out a new leg.   :)
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Re: Logs
« Reply #40 on: December 05, 2019, 09:53:18 PM »
A guy on Facebook had a walnut log and I inquired.  He said that it was 18" across.  I asked for a pic and he send several.  Turned out to be that highly valuable mockernut hickory walnut :D
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Re: Logs
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2019, 11:27:17 PM »
That’s the guy!  He’s here too, everywhere, saying hickory is walnut.

“It’s got to be a walnut, it drops these big, black nuts”. It’s a hickory.  

“It’s got to be a walnut, it’s straight as an arrow and I have hundreds of them.”  It’s a hickory.

“I can’t be a hickory, it looks like a walnut.”  It’s a hickory. 

“My neighbor is an idiot, he burned all his walnut for firewood last year.”  It’s a hickory.

“It can’t be a hickory, the guy I bought it from says it a walnut.”  It’s a hickory.  

Believe it or not, some of these guys are so persistent, I have @WDH on speed dial, and I say “If you don’t believe me, believe this guy, he’s a professional.”  In that case, nope, it’s an ash. :D



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Re: Logs
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2019, 07:38:36 AM »
I blame all this ashing around on Southside.

My walnut hickory guy was persistent too.  

I did not know that there was such a thing as speed dial anymore :)
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Re: Logs
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2019, 08:31:06 AM »
Just for reference, this is a trailer load of Highly Valuable Walnut logs.



 
When I am sawing "hourly rate" it does not matter; large, small, short, or tall, I saw them all and had a "Goat Note" in my pocket when I got back home.

This was one of the very rare instances when a customer brought his "logs" to me.  Whatcha Sawin' 2019 ??? in Sawmills and Milling
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Re: Logs
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2019, 10:55:51 AM »
Walking away with a Goat Note sure made that a highly valuable load of walnut logs, at least to you it was!! 
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Re: Logs
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2019, 10:57:13 AM »
Walnut hickory guy has a brother, “white oak poplar” guy and they have a sister.  Her name is “can you saw this stick into lumber girl.”  Their cousin is “I have a cedar”.  They all have a neighbor with a sawmill that will pay them just for the privilege to saw their high value trees into lumber worth millions.

Sorry for the sarcasm, I just got through explaining to a guy why I won’t pay a tree service $5,600 to cut down the walnut trees in his yard.
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Re: Logs
« Reply #46 on: December 06, 2019, 12:42:22 PM »
I get a lot of the “Payem” brothers also.  I think it’s a strategy of the tree cutters to convince the land owners that they can sell the logs to help pay for the arborist service.  

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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Logs
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2019, 05:15:13 PM »
I get a lot of the “Payem” brothers also.  I think it’s a strategy of the tree cutters to convince the land owners that they can sell the logs to help pay for the arborist service.  
and real estate agents....

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Re: Logs
« Reply #48 on: December 06, 2019, 05:30:28 PM »
I get a lot of the “Payem” brothers also.  I think it’s a strategy of the tree cutters to convince the land owners that they can sell the logs to help pay for the arborist service.  
Yes!  It's a tree service ploy so they don't have to haul the heavy stuff to the landfill!  
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Re: Logs
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2019, 05:59:33 PM »

Yes!  It's a tree service ploy so they don't have to haul the heavy stuff to the landfill!  
AH HA!!!! This explains what I never understood. "Why do they do this?" Now I have an explanation when I run up against this.
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