Cook's Cat Claw or Wood-Mizer BMS 250

[SawyerTed]

After the last two shipments to Resharp, purchasing my own sharpening equipment is now looking more economical.   Business since August has been very good.  Resharp is costing enough to justify the expense.  I was back and forth on this two or three months ago.  Now my monthly Resharp expense would make payback on equipment in 6-8 months possibly less.

Now the decision is on which equipment to buy.  I'm looking at the Cook's Cat Claw with Dual Tooth Manual Setter and the WM BMS 250 with BMT 200.  These combinations appear to be comparable looking at them online.

Can any experienced members offer any guidance on this or other comparable sharpening equipment?

[terrifictimbersllc]

I have the BMS250 and BMT250. I had and sold the previous WM models. The BMS250 is an outstanding machine that doesn't need any improvements.  No way I'd go back to hand cranking, not using CBN, or using a setter without gauges. Wear out your body, spend time and attention, and, if you want to, save money on other things.

[DDW_OR]

Following.
I use a wire wheel on my angle grinder to take any buildup off the band before i remove it from the mill
Run the blade on the mill slow.

I have the timberking Talon Sharpener with dual tooth setter

Sharpener Pros:
sharpener is automatic
does a good job. FYI I have never used anything else


Sharpener Cons:
takes a while to get the grinding dialed in
taking the standard square edge grinding disk and shaping it to the correct profile. USE GLOVES

Setter Pros:
there are none

Setter Cons:
setter, as is, will brake teeth
the pusher (setter) points have to be ground so they do not push on the teeth point
I have only used Timberking blades. the mill came with 10, then Timberking did and on site demonstration and gave me another 10. then we did a demo at Eugene and got an other 10, for a total of 30 8)

I use the dual gauges on the setter to check Kerf, 18 to 22 per side. 20 is ideal

I mill for myself. may do it for others once i have a need

[Stephen1]

I have the bms250 sharpener and dual tooth setter, both automatic. I really like it after having the drag sharpener. and single tooth setter. No Comparison. 
I am still learning the setter, but the CBN grinder is hands down the best investment I have made. We have no resharp service in north here. 
I damage so many blades that I can resharpen 2-3 times before I need to set, and latley by that time I only have 2-3 blades left,  out of a box to set. 

[Southside]

There is no comparison between a dry grind and a CBN grind. Personally I set, sharpen, then set, so hand cranking would get old really fast. I am actually working on a de-setter / flattener that will work in conjunction with my BMT 250, so definitely don't want to hand crank. 

[Gere Flewelling]

I am the Ford amongst the Chevy's here. I have a Cat Claw sharpener, Dual Tooth setter, and a band roller. I have had good success sharpening my own bands. I have used Cook's super sharp blades for the most part. I did try a couple of Timber Wolf blades from a local vendor. The sharpener takes a little practice to learn how to operate but once you figure it out it is very consistent and accurate. The setter is similar in its learning curve, but work very well once you understand what to look for.  The roller, though controversial to some also does just what Tim Cook says it will do. I haven't come across very many blades that needed rolling, but the ones I have found the anti-claustic curvature in are flat after they are rolled.  I can get 8-10 sharpening in many of the lucky blades that don't come across metal while sawing.  I would suggest that you put lots of thought into what you build for bench's to mount these devices on.  Make sure you make them tall enough to get the sharpener at eye level.  It makes a big difference when making your initial adjustments and when checking the results. The setter and roller need to be high enough to allow you to stand up straight to operate them.  I am 6'2" and the bending to see really bothers the old back.  I have never seen a Wood Mizer sharpener and am confident they are good quality.  I have never regretted my investment in Cook's sharpening equipment and would recommend them to anyone.  If I can figure out how to use them on my own, I suspect most anyone can.

[Chaser357]

Here's what I did.  I milled for a year and just bought new blades.   Then I ordered a bms250 and bmt250.  I had probably 80-100 blades.  Started sharpening blades in January I think and am just getting around to the second sharpening on my blades.   I got the setting perfect on the sharpener and haven't touched it all year until I just got through the first sharpening on all my blades.   Only thing I had to do was pretty much clean the magnets periodically.  I figure the sharpener has just about paid for itself and I shouldn't have to buy blades for at least 2 or 3 more years depending on how many nails I hit.  Not to mention not having the hassle or expense of shipping the blades back to resharp.   I am very happy with the cbn sharpener and would recommend it highly.  The blades are sharper than new if the machine is set right.   

[barbender]

I have a Cat's claw sharpener. It works pretty good and keeps me in sharp blades. If I was just getting into it now, I'd probably go with the  WM cbn sharpener. I also have a Suffolk dual tooth setter. It also works well, once you get it adjusted correctly.

[Rachiano]

Maybe this can help to make a decission...

Euro-Grind CAB5000M CBN Sharpener Shootout - YouTube

[DDW_OR]

Rachiano, what are we looking at??????

12/15/2019 update - at time of posting there was no video

[Tin Horse]

I also have the Cat claw sharpener and setter. Very happy with both. I worried about changing blades and profiles because of set up changes but with practice it's not too bad.
On the other hand I'd love to try the BMS 250 to see how the results differ. 

[SawyerTed]

That video appeared to be two sharpeners in a head to head race.  Not sure of the point there since I don't know the manufacturers or whether those machines are available in the US.

I've looked at online videos of the equipment from Wood-Mizer, Cook's, TimberKing, Woodland Mills, Norwood, Hardwood Mills probably some others and several home built machines.  

The Wood-Mizer BMS 250 and BMT 250 seem to rise to the top as far as machine quality, engineering, reliability, consistency and ease of operation.  I'm sure the other machines do fine but I'm making a business decision with this purchase rather than a hobbyist decision.  I've got to have machines with very little tweaking one sharpening to the next.  I want to spend my time doing other things but blade sharpening is a necessity given the costs I'm incurring paying for Resharp.

If I were a hobbyist, I believe I'd build my own machines.  They aren't complicated.  But needed reliability and support don't make that option workable.

[PAmizerman]

I have both auto WM 250 machines.
I would go with the WM cbn sharpener without a doubt. I need to go to WM and get trained on using the setter. I have not quite got the hang of it yet. I love the sharpener.

[Rachiano]

Hello Sawyerted...you can get some more info on this machine on youtube. Here 1 of 4 videos on youtube explaining the machine. If your looking for quality and need to make a bussiness decision you can't go wrong with this machine especially with the tripple grind cam.
Fyi: the head to head race is with a BMS250.
If you need more info on pricing and availablity in the US..which is...send me a PM.

Euro-Grind CAB 5000/M CBN Sharpener 1 - YouTube

Ps. Automatic double setter will come out soon.

[SawyerTed]

I can't find any info on the Euro Grind machines anywhere.  I even tried the url off the front of the machine shown in the video.

Who is the US dealer?  What is the support level here?  How long will parts and supplies take to get here? What are the additional shipping costs involved?  How long has the manufacturer been building these machines?  What's the warranty?  How is this machine substantially different than say the Wood-Mizer products?

You see that there's more to it than a YouTube video or two. I need to know what my money is buying and that it is buying the most it can.

[Chuck White]

Whether or not you will sharpen and set for others could should be a determining factor in the choice!

If you sharpen for others, you will have many varying angles to deal with!

[BandsawBen]

Hello all,
I own a cooks cat claw sharpener and dual tooth setter.  I like them both they work great. It is a learning curve but in no time you can get great results. When i bought them i had plans on sharpening for others to make a little extra cash. There was no shortage of people wanting blades sharpened. The problem was the junk people were bringing to me rusty, bent,broken teeth completely covered in pitch. Then the different sizes and brands and the time it takes to clean set and sharpen each blade. I was charging 8 dollars a blade. I dont sharpen for others anymore just myself. If i was sawing full time i would use a resharp service because of the time it takes to sharpen them. One thing about cooks sharpener is the different cams for different brand blades, i dont want to try different blades because i need a different cam to sharpen them such as the wm 747. Although the profile looks extremely similar to cooks super sharp blade.

[SawyerTed]

While I don't saw full time, it is enough the cost of Resharp is becoming prohibitive.

It's now easy to go through 30+ blades a month.  Eight or 10 jobs will require that many blades.

My last resharp bill was over $500 not including the auto fill blade replacements. I've spent enough since August to have paid for equipment. 

The previous resharp bill was $400 for 30 bands.  The problem with that batch of blades is they were poorly sharpened and they took two weeks.  The facility had some equipment off line.  

[BandsawBen]

Those numbers puts it in a different perspective,  that much being spent i would definitely buy some sharpening equipment. If i was to buy again i think i would get a single tooth setter because i can set blades alot faster than it takes for the sharpener to go round. I can set probably 3 blades to sharpen 1. Although it frees up some time to clean up the shop.

     I just got cooks flyer and they are offering free shipping on sharpener and setter combo deals.

[YellowHammer]

I had a Cooks sharpener, with an auto shut off timer.  I sold it.  I ran it for a few years, and it generally took three passes around to get a good grind, sometimes only 2 times around.  With the timer, I found that the optimum speed for me was at "4" which took 7.5 minutes per pass.  So two passes would be 15 minutes, and the occasional three passes would be 22 minutes to properly sharpen a band, or 3 or 4 bands per hour.  It would go faster, but I didn't like the quality of the grind.  So I just what worked best for me.

Since I use 2 to 3 bands per sawing day, I would expend maybe 45 minutes sharpening time for every day of sawing.  So for 5 days of sawing, I would take me almost half a day of sharpening.  That was way too long, so thats why I installed timer so I could grind unattended.  However, that also has its problems.

In comparison, my BMS 250 will sharpen at 2.5 minus per cycle, with only 1, sometimes occasionally, 2, cycles per band.  So worst case, the WM does a band in 5 minutes, the Cooks did it for me in 22 minutes.  Both will sharpen a band, but time is money.  Also, I hate sharpening, its about the same to me like emptying the dishwasher.  Its just something that has to be done.  So I'd rather spend a fraction of the time with the BMS 250.  

One reason I do it is because properly sharpened and set bands will generally cut better than new ones and I could have more control of my process if I did it myself.    

[redbeard]

When I ordered the Cooks sharpener package they talked me into the single tooth setter and they were right it really dose teach you alot about setting.
Used it for 1-1/2 years before getting a dual tooth setter. I did switch too Sullfolk dual setter it handles .055 blades really well.
I will eventually get a WM CBN sharpener one day. I rarely ever do two passes and I grind lightly.
If I do a second pass it's on damaged blades.
The Cooks set up dose suit my needs for now.  The Cooks  2" .055 8° Magnum blades are great blades for the AC 36 get lots of High production from them.

[tylerltr450]

I was in the same boat as you, cut so much the blade sharpening starts to add up. When I was looking at a sharpener there was a couple factors.

1. If I want to get a new blade or try a new design what was the cost.
2. If I want to sharpen for others what would I need.
3. I seem to hit a lot of nails and would that sharpener be able to get the job done.

That is why I went with Cooks dual tooth setting and sharpener. Cooks allows me to change blade profiles whenever I need without much adjustment or even needing to change a cam. Also I sharpen other peoples blades so much having the cooks allows me to sharpen many different styles of blades with only a couple cams. Also the biggest factor is the nails, from what I read back a couple years ago CBN wheels are not happy if they have to sharpen blades that have been smoked by nails.

With Cooks I have been able to sharpen blades that were hammered by nails back to life and I still use them today.

Sure cooks isnt as sexy as woodmizer with the fancy shut offs and computers, but with a little craftiness you will be able to make a cooks work just like a woodmizer. I just added to my cooks sharpener a timer, tooth counter and soon an automatic shutoff with the use of a magnet (just waiting on shipping from over seas) .

On LT40 blades that is 158 teeth I can normally sharpen a blade in about 8 to 12 mins depending on how hammered they are (I had a couple blades that were killed by nails), if you add setting time its under 20 mins per blade. Last night I set and sharpened 7 blades in under 2 hours.

[SawyerTed]

I'm appreciative of all the responses.  

I doubt I will sharpen for others. Yellowhammer describes sharpening much like I feel about it.  It has become a necessary task like removing sawdust. 

Cams and grinding wheels compatible with the blades I run is certainly a consideration.

[barbender]

I don't think the cams for the Cooks are much cheaper than the cbn wheels, either one you need to change to grind a different profile. Yeah you can fiddle around with the Cook's and still grind a different profiles, but it takes a while (lots of passes) before it gets the whole profile.

[redneckman]

I have a Cook's sharpener and a Cook's single tooth setter.  I am pretty happy with the sharpener.  Do light passes and it works well.  I actually reground my cam to make it follow the tooth profile of a turbo 7 Woodmizer blade.  The biggest issue I have with the sharpener is the mess it makes.  It makes a lot of grinding dust.  If I had it to do all over I would have probably got the WM 250  sharpener, but it was more money.

The setting process for me was a steep learning curve.  I am currently in the market for a dual tooth setter.  Some people say they like the Cooks, and others say to stay away.  Again, it boils down to a cost thing for me.  I like the Suffolk DT setter.