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Author Topic: wavy cuts  (Read 1510 times)

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Offline dustyhoosier78

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wavy cuts
« on: December 29, 2019, 11:02:40 AM »
New to milling have milled 3 times, the first to times lumber was really smooth now my cuts a uniformly wavy. I tried new blades and same result. The only thing that has changed is I have moved my mill to the rear of my property about a 1/4 mile. The head seams to chatter back and forth as well. I have researched this issue and as of now am leaning toward blade tension as a possible culprit. I release blade tension in between uses and may need to add more tension. The only other thing I can think is I haven't hit my log stops with the blade yet.

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2019, 11:06:48 AM »
Are your logs frozen?
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2019, 11:08:30 AM »
No we have had warm weather here its not even muddy. That is not normal for this time of year been around 60 for a week or better.

Offline doc henderson

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2019, 11:09:18 AM »
is the head just making a noise or actually moving back and forth?  video would/may be helpful.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2019, 11:18:43 AM »
No noise just a little wiggle and more resistance pushing the head through the log. I have not mastered pictures or video yet. I need to work on on mastering those skills. The lumber is straight and dimension is true. Thanks to this forum I have been lucky removing stress and stickered correctly I am very happy with the results I am getting. The wavy cuts would not bother me so much. The lumber I am sawing is for a close friend and I want it to look as nice as possible he has done so much to help me I want to return the favor.

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2019, 11:22:35 AM »
I originally thought the set was off in a few teeth. Then I noticed a few small spark of the ceramic guides. I changed blades and inspected but did not notice anything that would be interfering. I do not want to adjust something that does not need it if I can help it. Could the band being lose cause it to contort enough to cause the wave.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2019, 11:34:34 AM »
Read this thread.  
https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=45704.0

More info is needed with question like yours.  What degree band are you using.  What mill and HP are you using?  What wood are you cutting? Are there a lof of knots or straight grain?  Are you manually pushing through the cut or power feed?
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2019, 11:38:07 AM »
Thanks ill read the thread, to answer those questions which I feel silly for not answering first. I am cutting maple with a manual mill my logs are small around 22" being the largest. I am using a 10 degree blade from timbery I have read others state that they are woodmizer silver bands and not the best. I have cut through some knots those do not seem to phase the wave. 

Offline Den-Den

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2019, 12:29:51 PM »
For myself, wavy cuts have been caused by dull blades, too little set, too little tension and too fast feed.  When cutting narrow boards/logs, can feed pretty fast.  For wide cuts, I have to feed slower.
I have read about slipping drive belts causing the same issue but have not experienced that (yet).
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Offline Southside

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2019, 12:48:09 PM »
So a 10 degree band in hard maple with a lower horse power engine is definitely a potential recipe for wavy cuts.  It's not a horrible band choice, but a 4 degree would be better.  I realize you didn't say what engine you are running.  Another possibility is drive belt tension. If it's not set right then the belt will slip causing the band to slow down in the cut which will cause it to travel.  You don't want to set it too tight as that can break the crankshaft on your engine, so look at the mfg specs and make sure it is set right.

With issues like this you want to only check / adjust one variable at a time so you know that you identified the culprit, don't throw the whole tool box at it and then see what happens as you won't know which resolved the problem. 
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Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2019, 12:56:27 PM »
I'm with Southside 
Try a 4į band
Maple can be a tough go with low hp
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline esteadle

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2019, 02:05:37 PM »
You mentioned that you moved the mill between when the mill cut well and when you got waves. That's about the only thing that changed, right? A good place to start with diagnosing problems is with the things that changed. 

How did you set up the mill when you moved it? Did you level it out with levels? Was it "good" or "better than level" as my buddy Ken says? Also, what kind of ground do you have below the jackstands? Are you blocked up on mud or soft ground? 

You may have a little bit of a soft spot along the track where you are getting the chatter in the blade because the carriage wants to take the blade down, but the blade body wants to keep the blade moving the same direction and they are fighting each other.  

To check, you could run a string from front to back along the track and make sure there is no deflection along the length of the track. Maybe just take a look down it from the edge with one eye and correct any deflections you see. Then watch the saw carriage as it traverses down the track and check if you have any deflection in the track as the saw puts weight on it. 

As I recall, another fellow with a fixed track had similar problem that were corrected when the track sections were straightened, re-leveled, and reinforced beneath. 

Best of luck! 

Offline esteadle

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2019, 02:11:12 PM »
The only other thing I can think is I haven't hit my log stops with the blade yet.
Forgot to make a joke about that... 

Don't worry, you will. :-) 
Paint em day-glow flourescent blue or yellow or something before you saw them off. 




Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2019, 02:49:18 PM »
Motor is a 16 hp vanguard and this was the first large log I had tried the other times were smaller practice logs basically. In the large log I was able to get around 10 1x14 maple. Itís nice to be able to cut large lumber Iíll use them for the floor of shooting house Iím planning on building thanks for all the advice Iím going back Tuesday Iíll keep everyone posted

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2019, 03:01:44 PM »
You might check your drive belt tension. They are notorious for needing to be tightened after the first few hours.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2019, 03:10:09 PM »
What Southside said.  Use 4į.  Note that he said Drive belt tension, not band tension.  Increasing band tension over factory spec does not do good things.  Set the band tension as recommended by the mill manufacturer.  
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Nebraska

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2019, 03:37:02 PM »
4į made a big difference for me,  running a 13 hp Honda. Started with  10į, 7į was better, running Kascos the are a .045  vs .042 so also smidge stiffer.

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2019, 05:01:27 PM »
Member Yellow hammer is right stiffer bands make flatter cuts.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2019, 05:45:43 PM »
You said you saw sparks? Thatís never a good sign.  Sparks can mean instant set removal, dulling on one side of the band, or band interference.

Assuming all things are normal, as others have said, drop the tooth angle as a matter of routine, and anything a thin band can do, a thicker band can do better.




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Take steps to save steps.

If it wonít roll, its not a log; itís still a piece of tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not pieces of trees.

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Offline LeeB

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2019, 10:38:41 PM »
Have you only had problems in this one log or more than one? Some logs just don't behave.
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Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2020, 08:06:40 AM »
Weather has keep me from the mill till yesterday I was able to tighten belt and band tension and noticed no difference. I may have titled this post wrong my cuts are true I am getting teeth marks in the lumber I am cutting. So the cuts are straight and dimension is true, I may need to switch to a lower degree blade. I also think i need to lube my rails more I blow off the mill frequently throughout the day and spray silicon lubricant along moving parts and the rail. I am using the mill to remove maple trees through out my property to improve for wildlife. Everywhere there is a stump from the last time the property was logged 2 or 3 maples grew in that opening.

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2020, 08:26:22 AM »
Woodmizer sells a variety box with 6 blades 747, 4 degree and 9 degree. I think ill try them my cousin has a red oak we were thinking of sawing into trailer decking. I know that red oak will need a better band then what i have.

Offline never finished

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2020, 12:30:01 PM »
 Those marks usually mean you have knocked the set out on the blade. Are you sure you haven't hit your back stops? Try a new blade. If the blade is still cutting good save it for lumber that it doesn't matter on.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2020, 05:35:07 PM »
Woodmizer says not to run anything on the LT15 except 4 degree.  The 19HP engine isn't enough power to run any higher degree band.

I don't use any silicone based products.  If it gets on anything, including wood, it will create problems with any finish applied.  Body shops will not allow any silicone based products in their shops because it wreaks havoc with paint/primer.  Tire shine that contains silcone is a bad thing as it will get on the paint and if it ever needs bodywork/paintwork, it is extremely difficult to get off.  Just when you think you have it, you spray and the paint or primer beads like water on oil.  Arggggg!

Why would you have lubricant on mill rails- as rollers don't need lube on rails?  Is it to keep sawdust from sticking to it?  I don't usually have that problem with hardwoods.  I do wax my cross bars with Johnson Paste wax to help logs slide better so make manually turning them easier.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2020, 06:53:07 PM »
Yeah the spray was what I had the idea of lube was for clean up and just a smoother operation. I spoke with a guy west of where I live he ran a Norwood and said he cut everything with a 10 degree. Timbery doesnít sell a 4 on there site the variety pack I spoke of earlier is kinda pricey with shipping, but Iíd like to try a few blades before buying a 10 pack. I want some 4 degree blades so I can cut a little hardwood.

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2020, 07:15:54 PM »
I figured out how to post photos



 



 

Offline Anderson

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2020, 07:49:51 PM »
Good Pics! 8)

I will be interested to hear your results with 4 degree bands if you get some. I am milling with a 15 horse engine and 10 degree bands. It feels like my mill struggles with wide cuts but I haven't thrown down the money for some 7 or 4 degrees yet.

Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2020, 08:37:14 PM »
I will by some and let you know.

Offline OffGrid973

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2020, 09:22:32 PM »
Grab a few 2x10s from Depot, put on the mill and check everything is level.

Then try and cut the 2x10ís down and inch and see how uniform it is.  If this test passes then you can move to wood type, belt tension, etc.

Send some pics of the wavy wood and run your test with a new blade.

Good luck
Your Fellow Woodworker,
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Offline Southside

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2020, 06:34:07 AM »
If you are getting chatter all along the board then yes a tooth or teeth have been dinged or knocked out of set.

If the chatter starts and stops then that is often a sign of not enough feed speed. Which can be due to wrong tooth angle for the wood being cut, dull band not allowing adequate feed speed, or just not enough feed speed. 
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2020, 06:37:30 AM »
Here's a good suggestion that I remember hearing way back when I first got my mill:

When things are not quite right with your mill, "make only one change/adjustment at a time"!

If you change a few things at the same time and the issue gets fixed, you don't really know which one of those cured the problem!

Just sayin'!
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Online kelLOGg

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2020, 07:14:47 AM »
My mill is 16HP too and I switched to 4į (thanks to Brad_bb recommendation) with marked improvement 8)
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Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2020, 07:23:54 AM »
Try 7į in softwood and 4į in hardwood your cuts will be nice and smooth 
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Offline dustyhoosier78

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Re: wavy cuts
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2020, 10:19:03 PM »
 

 I had a good day of sawing today tightening the blade tension took the chatter out of the saw head. I Snugged the drive belt a little but that was just a minor adjustment. I havenít been able to order new blades yet but when I do Iíll give an update. The lumber turned out really well over 300 bdft for a friend. Maple siding for the inside of his shop he was very happy and I was glad to repay him for some help he has given me.

 


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