Norse/Igland or Farmi/Wallenstein style?

[wisconsitom]

Reckon I'm confused as well.  I've got two "cat chokers" hanging on the rear end of my tractor with the bell ending and sliders, with which I've twitched many a load of ten to twenty small logs at a time.  No breakage.

Back to winch choices, I can't do anything yet but am now thinking towards the Farmi 290 to best fit my tractor.  Had been keen on the smallest Krpan unit but have come to believe the smaller 290 will actually suit me better.  Can be had on other side of this state.

The thing I'm leery of is the scenario where you've spent all this money on a winch, then end up not being able to pick the unit up high enough to clear bumps in the road.  My trails are pretty good in the plantation, and pretty bad in the woods and swamp, but by far most of my work will be in the rows.  

 I've now read a few accounts of guys with 3-point winches where this clearance limits what they can do.  Sure wouldn't want that after all the $$$.

[PoginyHill]

That's what their manual says. I've not tested it to see if it's true. Never had the need to use the sliders without a log choked at the end either.

[g_man]

Good to know. Thanks for the info.

gg

[PoginyHill]

I can't easily enlarge the pic, but you can see the button at the very end and cable slider (yellow), then the chain sliders. I don't use the chain sliders unless the cable slider is around a log.

If it were a ferrule instead of a "button", it would probably be fine. 

[wisconsitom]

Pog, my chokers have ends like that I believe, if I'm seeing things right.  Came from Westech Rigging Supply out west.

I'm hoping once I get a winch, I can put these cables to further use.  One's a shorty probably can serve as aux  log holder, the other's thirty feet or something, maybe just put on main line to get another log laying off somewhere, I don't know.  Very nice chokers from those guys.

[petefrom bearswamp]

Cant remember if I posted here before or not
1994 Farmi on my 8540m Kubota.
On the second cable, no other issues.
limit myself to 4 chokers and use the snatch block a lot.
Havent skidded alone for at least 10 years maybe more.

[NE Woodburner]

Mine is an Igland 450. The grab hook on the end does not swivel (no slider) The cable goes through the eye of the grab hook and loops back to itself where it is swedged together. I didn't know better when I first got it and had a few logs in my hitch, the last one tied to the end grab hook. Pulling the hitch uphill and looking from the winch at the back of the tractor I did not notice things getting twisted up and the hitch caught on a rock. Before I knew it the cable went slack and I walked out to find that I had broken the winch cable about a foot above the swedge. I was surprised the cable broke but I think the hitch rolled over a time or two coming up the slope and the cable got twisted into a kink. Not being able to rotate, all of the force went into twisting the cable at the kink.

[PoginyHill]

Hopefully this explains my point a little better. If I'm pulling just one stem, only use the cable. Additional stems would be put on a chain choker and slider.



 

[wisconsitom]

Thanks fellows-I learn, albeit slowly.  Now, since I'm likely months off from even being able to back my tractor up to a winch and hooking it up, anyone have any close up pics or video of how the sliders are used?

[thecfarm]

I always use the last slide, so if I have to winch in another one I can without having to pull out twice the cable.
PoginyHill is using the first one.

@wisconsitom, I have a post in the below thread that should help out on using the winch. Reply #14

this should help

I think if the winch was matched up to the tractor correctly, then the ground clearance would not be an issue. The Norse that I have will clear anything my tractor will go over and then some, never  measured it. I have 18 inch clearance for the tractor. 
I know I keep talking about the pivot but plate on a Norse/Igland, but another selling point.
I do know when the front tires go up a knoll the rear end is getting closer to the ground, meaning the butt plate. I can hear my butt plate swing when I come out of the woods, kinda like a tail gate on a dump truck.

[mike_belben]

say you have 4 stems within reach of the cable, you are snaking the cable out zig zagging to each one, choking it, hooking each but to its own slide with a short stub of chain or wire, until you get to the farthest log with the mainline and lash that last with the terminal end of the mainline.  

when you winch in, they start pulling forward from the terminal end and hit each next one, stacking and bunching together into a single clump all connected to the mainline by the time they come to the machine. off you go.  in real life there is often a touch more grief but thats how we envision it. 

imagine laundry spread out on one clothesline.  then the wind whips it all to the far end stacked up in a jumble but still clipped to the wire.  thats about how it goes except you are pulling the wire instead of pushing the wood.

[mike_belben]

not great pics but only ones i have as an example.  1 blowdown for firewood across a trail.  it was laying east to west across the screen here.   too long to get out whole as it would get caught in all the brush.  so i cut it in three pieces, put 2 choker chains on one slide hook and sent the main hook to get the top log, they all pull together from several directions as each one kinda spins around and comes to the tractor. 










then as you get going they self align into a hitch. 

[mjeselskis]

I can't easily enlarge the pic, but you can see the button at the very end and cable slider (yellow), then the chain sliders. I don't use the chain sliders unless the cable slider is around a log.

If it were a ferrule instead of a "button", it would probably be fine.

I have the same winch. I guess I didn't read the manual well enough. I always just use the chain chokers and have had no issues with the end terminal. I've run the winch as hard as it will pull. 
On that note, the reason I don't use the cable slider and 'button' is that I don't want the last few feet of cable to get all twisted like a corkscrew like cable chokers do over time. Do you have that issue?

[wisconsitom]

Thanks all.  I got two loops, short and longer, just hanging off the top link area of 3-point, lashed when not in use.  Haven't tangled yet- I do the turn and loop as wind it up so it's stayed pretty good.  But obvious limitation-only straight pulls with tractor, no winching capability.

Back to those sliders, they're designed to receive both ends of the individual chain chokers, correct....or does one end have a hook on it?  That's the bit I isn't familiar with.  I get-and very much like-the basic way these things work ..just never actually used any chain chokers or sliders.

[g_man]

Here is a video I made a couple months ago - not professional, just put the camera on the ROPS and went to work. It was a dark day too.  The tractor is parked facing down hill. It shows how I make a hitch using the sliders. Top slider first. It also shows how slow I work and some trouble when a little tree got tangled in the cable and tore the chokers off when the cable was slack. Got it fixed though. I kept the logs short, 26' max, because of 3 sharp turns in my trail. I cut them to 12'ers at the landing.

Tractor Logging with a Winch - YouTube


gg

[thecfarm]

A real life video.
I remember that one.
Maybe slow, but it gets the job done.
I do a lot of slow logging here too. I take my time and leave it looking nice. 
With a tractor it's not a good idea to leave a bunch of brush and other wood laying around.
I have an OWB and I can burn a lot of wood that I use to leave in the woods.

[PoginyHill]

On that note, the reason I don't use the cable slider and 'button' is that I don't want the last few feet of cable to get all twisted like a corkscrew like cable chokers do over time. Do you have that issue?

@mjeselskis  Yes, the end of my cable is a little twisted, but not that bad. With my old logging arch I used chain chokers/sliders exclusively. I've grown to really like the cable. When pulling a single stem, I think it is much quicker (even dealing with a less than straight cable) than using a separate chain choker. And nothing to hang up or remove when I'm done pulling. Just retract the main cable.

[PoginyHill]

Back to those sliders, they're designed to receive both ends of the individual chain chokers, correct....or does one end have a hook on it?  That's the bit I isn't familiar with.  I get-and very much like-the basic way these things work ..just never actually used any chain chokers or sliders.

@wisconsitom  Chain chokers have an open end (or often a rod welded to the last link to help thread under a log) and a slip hook (as opposed to a grab hook) on the other end. A regular slip hook from a hardware store will work, but a "forestry" slip hook has a smaller opening so the chain is less likely to come out of the hook. Only the open end of the chain is attached to the slider. The other end is choked around the log you are pulling.

The bottom picture on reply #77 of this thread shows the forestry hook. I'm not sure that's the right term, but basically a modified slip hook.

[wisconsitom]

You guys are going to get me trained yet!  I appreciate all your patience.

So let's say you're walking your main line out to where some logs lay and you are using chain chokers to secure these.  Are you carrying the chokers out with you?  Then, there's the rod end being snaked around the log, what happens with the hook?  When a single pull on the winch brings in more than one log, is it only the farthest one out that pushes the earlier ones along the cable towards tractor?  Or is each secured along that mainline somehow?

No worries fellows-nothing riding on these questions just yet.  

[g_man]

Bring out one choker for each log. Wrap one choker around each log and pull it tight thru the hook (choke it). Take the free end of the choker chain with the rod on it and stick it thru a slider key hole. Using the keyhole adjust the length of chain you want from the log to the main line slider. Do this for each log on a separate slider.



 



 



 

gg

[78NHTFY]

g-man: great video, pics & explanations....      Are you stacking logs on the landing with your grapple?  All the best, Rob.

[wisconsitom]

Thanks again gg.  I'm getting it.

[g_man]

g-man: great video, pics & explanations....      Are you stacking logs on the landing with your grapple?  All the best, Rob.

Thanks Rob - yes, I stack them with the grapple. Extra work but it is much easier when I load my truck to have them all stacked  pretty straight and level so I can pinch them on the very end of the grapple. To do that I need the logs level with the two lower tines of the grapple. Having the logs on the end of the grapple allows me to set them in the truck gently. Plus I have to turn some of them because I stack them so all the butts will end up against the cab of the truck. Easy to turn using the grapple before they are stacked.


 
gg

[mike_belben]

Choker setting

stahlssupplies.com and northamericansupply.com carry a lot of tackle to peruse and think about the different arrangements. im not sure if they are sponsors.  

about the cheapest "bolt" hook you can find other than maybe ebay is from mytee products which is a good company for flatbed securement gear, ive ordered from them few times.  theyre for 5/16 chain and id just cut down some trucker chains to make them.   

Logging Chain Choker Hook - 5/16" 2 Tons 4500 Lbs WLL



a pto winch cant bring the cable in past the fairlead like a skidder so chains are more commonly used in order to snug up a few more links to get the log lifted.  with cable chokers your lengthis fixed. long chokers on small trees would leave so much slack the log would stay flat on the ground. which sucks.  you really want the butts pulled up out of the dirt.  its easier to drag, easier on the trail and the log isnt covered in mud and stone to dull your chain when bucking. 

[Hilltop366]

For chain chokers I prefer the kind made with high tensile (I think 90 to 100k) with the almost square link they are much better than the ones made with transport chain. They are smaller chain which makes them quite a bit lighter (especially when you are dragging out a bunch of them) and they go through the slider key hole a lot nicer.