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Author Topic: Ideal layout for mobile sawing  (Read 853 times)

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Offline Bolson400

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Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« on: January 10, 2020, 11:21:10 AM »
Does anyone use any kind of diagram to help explain to customers the best way to set up their yard for sawing. Iíve been going out ahead of time and explaining everything and even painting lines to help with layout. Sometimes it takes a while for them to get around to staging things and sometimes I think they just donít completely understand (could be my fault). Just thought a visual diagram to reference might be helpful. Iíd make one myself, but I havenít figured out how to use that computer program and my artistic skills wouldnít get the point across if I drew it out by hand. 

Offline btulloh

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2020, 11:24:22 AM »
A picture (or a diagram) is worth a thousand words, as they say.  Couldn't hurt.
HM126

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2020, 12:44:43 PM »
   If you click on my website here on this post you can see a checklist I made for the customers to use that works well for me. 

    I use a hard and fast set up that I change frequently based on the terrain and conditions I encounter at each new customer's site. Be flexible.  :D

    I normally set up facing the rear of the mill and the log stack centered on my right so we can roll them on to my hydraulic loading arms. Sawdust goes to my left as I saw. I off load my slabs over my sawdust pile on to dunnage or I throw the first couple of slabs down at right angles to the slab pile for that purpose. I offload off the end of my mill hopefully directly on to a truck, trailer or forks of a tractor/skid steer. In some cases when sawing different thicknesses and lengths I/my customer may have several stacks in a semi-circle area close by for easy/fast access. I never allow the customer to set up so far from the mill it slows him and me down. I expect my help, when used, to remove the finished boards before they build up and get in my way. I don't care if a couple of boards lay on the cant while he stickers the next row but he generally needs to keep up with me. I throw my flitches on the loading arms and edge them against the cant when it gets down to about 4" or less then I saw the rest of the cant to the rails.

   I don't like someone unloading behind me as they slow me down and I worry about tripping over them but some people prefer that and stack to the front of the mill. The kind of mill you have and features such as dragback, ride-along seats, do you saw from a remote station at the front or rear of the mill, etc. affects what works best for you. Also are you sawing with help or alone?

   My WM manual had several good suggested layouts for setup and it you search this thread there are many good, very old posts with diagrams. I think Mr. Tom had one of the first I read and his even showed the permanent location of his coffee cup I think. :D

   Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2020, 01:11:00 PM »
Unless the land owner has experience I doubt they will pay much attention. And how about getting them to flush all the branches and bring the logs out clean.

Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2020, 02:57:20 PM »
 

 

 
These 2 pics give the general Idea of my GOTO general set up.

I ALWAYS do a site visit BEFORE I move the mill WITH chainsaw in tow.
Quite often limb & buck a log or 2 and explain at least twice that the yard set up and the quality of the owners setup work and the quality of the labor are his MOST significant cost reduction factors.  

MKy general setup is SAFE (with proper orientation of labours), Efficient and simple. I set up with very tight but safe clearance for the people working around the mill to move.

My mill has a manual board return that is critical to productivity and safety in an efficient setup.  Also the outfeed/scramble table is a significant factor in realizing the full benefit of the board return both to the mill operator AND the laborers.  I'd say this factor eliminates 1 laborer when production milling is in progress.  

Distances are minimized to eliminate the heavy manual lifting as much as possible by allowing one end of heavy product to be place on it's stack and then pushed into place without picking up the entire weight.

Also set up to keep handling equipment away from the operators side of the mill and only allowed in the finished lumber staging area when lifts are complete/banded and ready to be moved. This only occurs when the mill is shut down and ALL laborers are focused on finished product handling or out of the area.

Fresh logs and trash are ALWAYS on the right side of the mill so that loader operator ALWAYS approaches the rollway AND the trash pile from the same direction and exits the same direction as approach.

Easy to keep "NO GO" zones for labor and equipment well defined this way.    

If you have a question or would like to chat about it PM me.    
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2020, 03:36:51 PM »
I try not to over-think it and I very seldom make a pre-saw site visit.  I describe the basics and farmers have tractors.  Sometime the lumber is stacked on the sawing site but most of the time it is off loaded onto a trailer to be hauled to the shed/barn.  Every situation and customer is different so I take what is there and carry on. 
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2020, 08:54:33 PM »
My "Getting Ready" page

I use a diagram I drew up years ago with Adobe Illustrator. If you're not handy with software you could just sketch the layout you want on paper and email or text a photo of it to customers.


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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2020, 08:35:57 AM »
@Bandmill Bandit  ,

  That looks like an awful lot of lumber stacked around you. Must have been a lot bigger mobile job than what I ever see. I don't think I could work with that much stacked lumber that close to me. About three stacks around the end of my mill is about the most I remember sawing at one time.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2020, 02:51:18 PM »
Yes WV that was a big job I started April 4 and finished June 30.

Most of the lumber lifts filled and cycled out 2 to 3 times a day. The ties (24 per lift off the end of mill) cycled out about 5 to 6 times a day. Was cutting 12 to 14 hours on average day.
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2020, 06:34:32 PM »
@terrifictimbersllc has an excellent diagram that is much like what I want.  When I first started, I borrowed a photo of a set up that I sent to customers to visualize what I want. Now I send one of my mobile set ups.

Besides log staging, sufficient help and whether the customer has equipment for log handling and slab removal are my priorities.

So many sites vary, equipment varies and help varies, I'm much like @Magicman and try not to over think it.  I've not left a milling job because it hasn't been set up ideally, yet.  We've always made the job work.  Sometimes work is the operative word.
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Offline Bandmill Bandit

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2020, 06:45:06 PM »
Ted you nailed it well. I am always flexible with the set up and more so on the smaller jobs. I have sawed in some pretty cramped setups but no point in creating something that will take longer to do then the job it self.

I have only pulled out of one job and refused to start one other one BUT those were both based on "price WHINING"! I dont start with out a deposit and I dont continue for client that is always trying to talk me down on my price. 
Skilled Master Sawyer. "Skilled labour don't come cheap. Cheap labour dont come skilled!
2018 F150 FX4, Husqvarna 340, 2 Logright 36 inch cant hooks and a bunch of stuff I built myself

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2020, 07:50:09 PM »
   I had one I probably should have walked out on because I had done a site visit and explained to the customer how I needed things set up. He had cut a fence row of WP into 8' logs and they were just one long row. The guy said he had them ready and I got there and found he had not touched them. He was going to have his sons, my helpers, roll them to to the mill with a flea market cant hook. I set the mill up down hill at an angle and we were able to roll most of them down to the mill. The two boys (actually grown city slicker men in their mid 30's) looked like 2 monkeys and a football working against each other with no idea how to use a cant hook or turn a log. I finally got them trained and the second day I brought my long cable and snatch block and they'd hook to the logs downhill of the mill and pull them to the stump/block and we'd roll them to the mill. I refused to use my truck and possibly tear up my equipment or their yard so they used their SUV and it worked okay. It turned out to be a decent job and I got out of there just ahead of a snow storm that would have left me stranded till Spring. There were probably still 1/4 of the logs behind the mill and out of reach and I told them if they got them properly staged I'd come back. They never called back. I really should have left when I found they had lied about the logs being ready when he had not moved a one.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline SawyerTed

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2020, 08:22:06 PM »
I've had three in two years that were unusually "challenging" due to lack of help or inadequate equipment.

One was 15 or 16 30+" diameter 8' red oak logs scattered around a barnyard.  The customer had a Red Belly Ford to move the logs.  Lesson learned - ask specifically what equipment is available to handle logs.  That one was one of my first jobs.  

The second was a very nice 70ish lady who promised there would be plenty of help on sawing day.  She and her very nice computer programmer husband (they both were only slightly over 5' tall and together didn't tip 250 pounds fully clothed and soaking wet) were the "help" that showed for that job.  We made some beautiful spalted maple lumber for her kitchen cabinets and I earned my fee that afternoon.

The third was the gentleman who is building a cabin man cave out of 6x12x20 white oak.  The logs were staged great.  We rolled them on the loader arms by hand.  He had enough able help but his little Kubota tractor couldn't lift the timbers once they were cut. It could hold them up but wouldn't lift and forbid that one stayed on the tips of the forks.  We had to shove them off the mill onto the forks and against the bucket - they forks were standard forklift forks he modified to bolt on the bucket.  I cut a dozen 6x12x20 a day for three days.  Those were long days.

On the other hand, I had one job in August where a tractor, a skid steer, a flatbed trailer and a dump trailer were in operation around the mill.  There were six helpers and we cut 1,500 board feet in 4 hours.  When I left they had the lumber stacked on the trailer,  slabs cleared, the sawdust on the dump trailer with the slabs and the skid steer in the barn.  I didn't touch any logs, slabs or lumber.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 08:40:44 PM »
Ted,

   I had one similar where my customer was a contractor/excavation guru with skid steers and good equipment. About 12 miles from home. I never had to wait for a log or board to be moved. When I finished edging the flitches off each log and while sawing the rest of the short cant to the rails he'd load the next log on the loader arms and maybe stage 2-3 more right behind it. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Bolson400

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2020, 02:39:48 PM »

This is a lot like what I had in mind. Someone pointed out that they had one in their WoodMizer manual. So I looked in my TimberKing manual and found this. Thanks for the help. I'm homing to make a diagram that includes this. Something that is simple and very general, but gives them a visual reference of what I'm talking about when I meet with them ahead of time. 





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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: Ideal layout for mobile sawing
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2020, 03:07:36 PM »
A day cutting wood in Sawmills and Milling

Check this @Peter Drouin has some good photos on customer setup that I borrowed until I had my own photos.
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