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Author Topic: New property owner seeking equipment advice  (Read 2071 times)

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Online Southside

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2020, 05:34:54 PM »
Yup, that's how they are normally driven, PTO direct. Much more efficient use of power that way.
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Online BargeMonkey

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2020, 08:31:29 PM »
 We have 3 NH's tractors and 2 NH skidsteers, fairly good luck. The new T4 I'm not sold on, kind of like a space ship and NOT something I would ever think about taking out in the woods. But again none of the new stuff is cheap or friendly to work on. Theres ALOT of low hr well kept tractors for sale, no def, no electrical gremlins, we also had a 6630 ? NH which my father decided to save when it started burning up due to wiring. Like Southside said, the cost to run PTO hydraulic in that volume would be nuts, we build that snowblower in house and probably have 7k ? In it. Like other guys have said in prior posts about grinding, pay someone to do the bulk of the work, I think by the time you buy the attachment, abuse the tractor, the brush, added guarding, it's not worth it. 

Offline Andries

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2020, 08:41:02 PM »
You would need somewhere along the lines of 90 GPM @ 4000 PSI to run a mulcher. You're not going to get that from a PTO pump. . . .  
@PJS - here's a good manufacturing firm that I've bought from in the past;
Commercial High Flow Hydraulic Power Unit | Power Units | Snow Equipment | Tractor Attachments | Erskine Attachments LLC 
Erskine makes some very tough brush/tree cutters and snow blowers, for FELs, that can be run from the same rear mounted pump. 
Southside has it right. 
Mulchers need huge flow at high pressure - a game changer requirement. 
So much so, it might be considered as a rental? . . . or a contract out?
BargeM has a lot of experience in this.
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2020, 11:42:55 PM »
I'm a big fan of getting one centralized piece of somewhat "do all" equipment and then expand and acquire more specialized equipment, as needed, later.

I donít know about mulching, but after having cleared 3.25 miles of fence line and riding trails through woods and fields with mine, except for the occasional elm tree, my tractor with a spiked bucket root ripper laughs at 4 to 6 inch trees.  Put the root bucket directly under the root ball of the little trees and curl or drive forward.  The tree pops out of the ground, with very little strain in anything.  I do mostly hardwoods, the few pines and cedars I take down are totally anticlimactic.  It'll do the big ones, too, but not as fast.



 

 
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Offline Gary_C

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2020, 06:27:21 AM »
 Combine the mulched tree/plant material with manure and a healthy, heavy frost seeding of cover crop/legumes/shade tolerant grasses and the following spring should produce some very rich forest grown pasture. As we move the cattle and sheep through the forest pastures, they consume the growing vegetation and deposit natural fertilizers. The fertilizers break down naturally given rest periods from a rotational grazing system, feeding the soil and in turn, feeding the root systems of the growing trees and grasses.

The two words "forest" and "pasture" are not normally considered compatible as they are competing interests. Plus as you move the cattle and sheep through the forest, the animals will compact the soil and kill the roots of the trees. That may not be true in lighter soils but lighter soils tend to be in arid climates where there is limited moisture. 
It's just never a good idea to pasture forested areas.
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Offline PJS

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2020, 07:41:16 AM »
I hope this finds everyone well with all the craziness in the world right now. 

Sorry for the disappearance, had a lot going on to get our house sold and everything in place for the big move. Iím taking everything you guys have told me into consideration because experience goes a long way in my book, letís just say Iíve learned the hard way in the past.

Iíve purchased the equipment from the current property owner, 97 Massey Ferguson 231 with front loader/tire chains/bale spear/snowblower/disc harrow/hay wagons/seed spreader/log splitter.... heís been using it around the farm for years and gave me a reasonable number for it. My only concern is the wife being able to blow/plow her way to the barns, we went up there in mid March and the snow banks were sitting at 8í tall lol. With all the turbulence in the markets, Iím going to bide my time and hunt down the best used tractor and/or skid steer I can find for the money Iíve got to spend, I donít want to sound like a vulture, but I think there will be some good ones coming into the market before winter hits again and dealers are going to be wanting to move some inventory and get some invoices out the door. Found a 2008 cat 299c, pre emissions tracked machine for $38,000cad, guys buying a house and needs it gone - but I donít have the cash till we close on our house.

My wife had to give me a bit of a reality check though because as much as Iíd like to do all of the work myself, Iím not super man and Iím going to be gone to work 4-5days a week working to keep the banker happy. Even though I could work for 48hours straight on the weekend, Iím not getting any younger and donít need to burn myself out. Itís a small northern town and with everything going on I think the local economy will be in desperate need of work so Iím going to hire the local contractors to get the work we need accomplished and hopefully build some good relationships with them while supporting the community. Iím going to buy a premier post driver for the farm, itís for a skid steer or excavator, but Iím thinking Iíll be able to offer it as a rental in the future and with 318acres there is a lot to keep fenced, especially with moose in the vicinity. 

@YellowHammer love the pics of the root bucket. Looks like a great tool to have in the arsenal! I know you bought your tractor new and specially made, just curious if thereís a way to tell if the tractor has the  hydraulic connections to operate a tool like that? 

@BargeMonkey appreciate the advice! I wonít be buying a mulcher anytime soon unless Iím going to make a career out of it. What model(s) of tractor/skid steer would you recommend keeping my eyes out for? 

@Andries thank you for the link! I found someone local who stocks erskine equipment north of the border and have been chatting with them

@Gary_C I cannot disagree with your comment because youíre absolutely correct that, in a traditional sense, pastoring forested areas would kill the trees. Iím referring to a more structured approach, for a quick example, dividing 300 acres into 30 10acre pastures, the animals will spend 24 hours grazing each pasture and then rotated to the next, allowing ample rest periods for the pasture as it would be roughly 30 days before we got back around to our original pasture. Again, itís going to be a trial and error experience, but Iíve got the time to explore. There are numerous articles and some university programs out of Missouri doing research into agroforestry and specifically silvopasture, so Iím going to enlist as many experts as might be willing to guide me in the learning process. 

Stay safe and healthy everyone! Hopefully this will all blow over soon and we will be back to the new normal, whatever that might be!  

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2020, 07:50:33 AM »
Sure, since it's a skid steer attachment, the tractor needs a joystick with an operator 2 button valve.  Then there needs to be two hoses run to the backplate of the bucket at the head of the loader arms.  Its made by WR Long.  You don't have to buy their joystick, they can hook up to pretty much any joystick with 2 buttons.

W.R. Long, Inc. | Selector Valve Kit "VKS18" & "VKS30"

and they have a great webpage, and are easily added to any tractor.

Whatever tractor you get, make sure it gets a skid steer quick attachment mounting plate installed.  That way it can run any attachment a skid steer can run, including buckets, grapples, forks, post hole drills, anything.  Some brands come with the plate as standard, I had one tractor where I bought the skidsteer plate and mounted to on my loader arms.  
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Online Southside

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2020, 08:50:31 AM »
As far as your silvopasture goes 30 day rest period under a canopy might be way too short.  Graze those grasses, forbs, and legumes too quickly and you will run them out.  When we bought our place here everyone locally told me silvopasture does not work.  Well - yesterday I moved my milking herd out of an area I have thinned and seeded just like you are looking to do.  They were in there for 48 hours and will be back in 45 days or so depending on growth.  This is a lower spot on my place and has good sub irrigation as a result so the forage has good moisture.  The canopy does a couple of things - it allows my cool season grasses to extend and slow down their growing, which is good here as we can go from winter to summer and cool season grasses will go to seed in a hurry in the open, but it also slows down the re-growth at the same time - the soil will be cooler under there, which is good and bad.  So you need to recognize that and account for it.  Also, you will have trash on top of the soil to deal with - leaves, needles, sticks, etc and they will impede seed to soil contact so it's important to really mob up your animals to get good hoof impact and get your seed into the soil - but again the soil is wetter, so you need to be careful not to pug the soil.  One of the gals who works for me absolutely loves the look of the "savanna" areas I have created and told me "that's where the woods fairies live", as it sure is an aesthetic landscape when done right.  For me it's also the very best soil I own, nobody else has had the chance to abuse it for 50+ years.  I call it my savings account and it has bailed me out several times.  Good luck with the project.  
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2020, 09:10:51 AM »
Silvopasture only works in certain soils with certain tree species no matter what the "experts" say. UP here grazing around any sort of trees with our heavy clay soil, high surface moisture, and ample rainfall means the roots get trampled and the tops die back.

I have a piece of woods that was grazed 1 day 2 years ago for the first and last time in 50 years and 1 year later I probably had 20% crown dieback in the aspen and maple trees. Now almost 2 years later and I'm not seeing bud activity in quite a few more trees. I dont really care too much as I plan to clear it all for field at some point though.

Offline PJS

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2020, 01:33:22 PM »
I love this site because you truly get all 3 sides of the coin. @Southside @chevytaHOE5674 really appreciate both of your insights. For the first two years I really donít plan to do much other than focus on what the wife needs for the horses while Iím observing and exploring the forest. As mentioned previously, Iíve got an agreement with a local forester, whose father logged the property before him, and I intend to listen and learn before I experiment. 

Currently thereís going to be a max of 10head, 4 cows, 3 calves, bull and 2 steers from a friend Iím hoping to finish for the fall and my freezers. For the last 100+ years the property has operated the same way, the cattle have about 200 acres to graze freely - they go up into the hills sometime in May and come back down to the barnyard late September/October. So until I have a good idea how the land lays and where spring run off goes, etc etc Iím not going to change much. 

We will be going back up in the next few weeks to walk the property line so Iíll do my best to get some good pictures to share, Iíd love to get some outside, more experienced eyes on it so I can juggle my options. If the hardwoods were logged in the 80ís, when would most of you go back in? Obviously I would wait for the right market conditions etc, Iím just asking about a general rule of thumb from a foresters perspective. 

@YellowHammer thank you again for the advice! More reading to do and equipment to look at!  :P

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #30 on: April 22, 2020, 02:02:42 PM »
I hope this finds everyone well with all the craziness in the world right now.

Sorry for the disappearance, had a lot going on to get our house sold and everything in place for the big move. Iím taking everything you guys have told me into consideration because experience goes a long way in my book, letís just say Iíve learned the hard way in the past.

Iíve purchased the equipment from the current property owner, 97 Massey Ferguson 231 with front loader/tire chains/bale spear/snowblower/disc harrow/hay wagons/seed spreader/log splitter.... heís been using it around the farm for years and gave me a reasonable number for it. My only concern is the wife being able to blow/plow her way to the barns, we went up there in mid March and the snow banks were sitting at 8í tall lol. With all the turbulence in the markets, Iím going to bide my time and hunt down the best used tractor and/or skid steer I can find for the money Iíve got to spend, I donít want to sound like a vulture, but I think there will be some good ones coming into the market before winter hits again and dealers are going to be wanting to move some inventory and get some invoices out the door. Found a 2008 cat 299c, pre emissions tracked machine for $38,000cad, guys buying a house and needs it gone - but I donít have the cash till we close on our house.

My wife had to give me a bit of a reality check though because as much as Iíd like to do all of the work myself, Iím not super man and Iím going to be gone to work 4-5days a week working to keep the banker happy. Even though I could work for 48hours straight on the weekend, Iím not getting any younger and donít need to burn myself out. Itís a small northern town and with everything going on I think the local economy will be in desperate need of work so Iím going to hire the local contractors to get the work we need accomplished and hopefully build some good relationships with them while supporting the community. Iím going to buy a premier post driver for the farm, itís for a skid steer or excavator, but Iím thinking Iíll be able to offer it as a rental in the future and with 318acres there is a lot to keep fenced, especially with moose in the vicinity.

@YellowHammer love the pics of the root bucket. Looks like a great tool to have in the arsenal! I know you bought your tractor new and specially made, just curious if thereís a way to tell if the tractor has the  hydraulic connections to operate a tool like that?

@BargeMonkey appreciate the advice! I wonít be buying a mulcher anytime soon unless Iím going to make a career out of it. What model(s) of tractor/skid steer would you recommend keeping my eyes out for?

@Andries thank you for the link! I found someone local who stocks erskine equipment north of the border and have been chatting with them

@Gary_C I cannot disagree with your comment because youíre absolutely correct that, in a traditional sense, pastoring forested areas would kill the trees. Iím referring to a more structured approach, for a quick example, dividing 300 acres into 30 10acre pastures, the animals will spend 24 hours grazing each pasture and then rotated to the next, allowing ample rest periods for the pasture as it would be roughly 30 days before we got back around to our original pasture. Again, itís going to be a trial and error experience, but Iíve got the time to explore. There are numerous articles and some university programs out of Missouri doing research into agroforestry and specifically silvopasture, so Iím going to enlist as many experts as might be willing to guide me in the learning process.

Stay safe and healthy everyone! Hopefully this will all blow over soon and we will be back to the new normal, whatever that might be!  
If you get that CAT you might want to pay a few bucks  to get a dealer to check it out. Thatís still a lot of money for that old of unit depending on the hours. You can get a bunch of money tied up in the undercarriage if itís worn out.

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #31 on: April 22, 2020, 02:18:19 PM »
If your set on a compact track loader take a hard look at used ASV with independent boogie wheels it rides much nicer, way better ground clearance and way more capable with 20 inch wide tracks. 

Offline PJS

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2020, 03:50:05 PM »
If your set on a compact track loader take a hard look at used ASV with independent boogie wheels it rides much nicer, way better ground clearance and way more capable with 20 inch wide tracks.
I havenít really decided yet, 4x4 tractor or skid steer... id like to get both, and an excavator lol, but we will see what the future holds.... I wonít buy anything without my buddy doing an inspection, 40yrs heavy duty mechanic, I just donít bug him unless somethings broken or Iím ready to buy, I donít like wasting his time sending him ads of every machine I look at lol
The cat had like 4800hrs.... sprockets done @3200, small rollers @3700, new tracks/fluids/battery and all new bucket hinge pins and bushings done less than 50hrs... had the receipts, he just couldnít wait cause he needs the downpayment for his house, probably could have talked him down with cash in hand.. I saw a used ASV RT120Forestry? Up on kijiji from a dealer, I might go take a look and see if I can find it again. 


Offline YellowHammer

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2020, 11:31:14 PM »
Kind of, mines a T4.95, and the key with that loader is whether it has mechanical self leveling or MSL.  If it does, its required to have stronger hydros with more flow rate to operate the self leveling feature.  With the stronger pumps and such, they could then refit with bigger rams, and so at least for my model, they would lift almost twice as much as the non self leveling systems.  

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Offline PJS

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Re: New property owner seeking equipment advice
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2020, 11:18:27 AM »
Dug through the photos I got from the real estate agent from spring 2019... yes it took us that long to negotiate this deal... but itís happening so thatís what counts!

Below is a pic of the logging area, from the receipts I received most of what gets sold is red/white pine saw logs and poplar saw logs/pulp. From what the owner has told me, heís only been having the forester cut enough every year to pay the property taxes. 





Below is a drone view from over top the forest facing towards the house, I know the pictures arenít great, I was just curious what some of your more experienced eyes first impression is based upon what you can see. To my inexperienced eye it looks to be in need of a thinning, but I literally know nothing about forestry and thatís why Iím here learning and reading all the old threads which are a wealth of information and knowledge. 


 

 


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