The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems






Author Topic: Cold Weather Solar  (Read 572 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Cold Weather Solar
« on: February 05, 2020, 04:48:38 PM »
It was in the low 30s today and kiln was 80-85 degrees with fans on. Am I wasting electric running fans like this? Or will some drying take place?

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2020, 05:00:15 PM »
this is a solar kiln.  what is the relative humidity in the kiln.  prob. very low.  what is the moisture content of the wood that is drying?  under 20% the fans do less.  better than outside since as the temp drops outside the RH goes up.  @GeneWengert-WoodDoc  so think of it being 30 or 80° outside air drying.  it is better than nothing.  i do not recall the cost to run a fan, but it was recently posted by Dr. Wengert.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline farmfromkansas

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Age: 68
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2020, 07:35:31 PM »
We had cloudy skies today, so no heat in my wood dryer.  Now that the sun is rising in the sky, won't be long till it is at 45 degrees, and my solar panels will be getting really hot on sunny days.   Interested to see how hot my reefer gets inside, first full season.

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 08:30:25 AM »
I do not read RH in kiln, should I? Wood is quarter sawn red oak and sycamore at 9-10 percent. I have read the 20 degrees over outside so well above that.

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 08:44:03 AM »
I would want to know the wood MC to see where you are in the schedule.  with oak you do not want the gradient from the wood to air to be to great and cause checking.  so you need to know the RH of the air in the kiln, also represented by the difference in dry bulb (actual air temp) and wet bulb (depression of the actual temp on thermometer covered with moist cloth).  the dryer it is in the kiln (lower RH)  the more the water will cool the wet bulb thermometer.  like sweating on a dry day feels cooler than on a humid day.  as dry as the lumber is, you should be ok.  What is your goal final MC for the wood.  I think @GeneWengert-WoodDoc  has stated that an increase of temp inside relative to outside of 15° is needed to drop humidity enough to promote drying.  fans are cheap to operate with free heat (sun).  good luck.  if we keep talking about it, the wood should be dry! :D :D :D
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline farmfromkansas

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Age: 68
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2020, 09:27:49 AM »
Did not get my reefer solar wood dryer finished and loaded till late Sept, and put air dryed lumber in it at that time, took some out last week, tested it with my mini ligno, and it tests at 7%.  Hope that is accurate as I planed a bunch of it.

Offline scsmith42

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4967
  • Age: 59
  • Location: New Hill, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • He who dies with the most toys... WINS!!!
    • Share Post
    • Whispering Pines Farm
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2020, 07:29:51 PM »
It was in the low 30s today and kiln was 80-85 degrees with fans on. Am I wasting electric running fans like this? Or will some drying take place?
Lumber will definitely dry at 80 degrees plus in a solar kiln.  You're not wasting $.  You might want to put a timer or temp controller on the kiln to cause the fans to kick on when the temp is about 70 inside the kiln.  Also to shut the fans down if the RH% gets below 20%.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2020, 03:59:00 PM »
After reading comments about RH in kiln I put a gauge in. It has been 20s-40 degrees outside last week no sun. Started at 50%, today some early sun then clouded up again temp made it to 55 in the kiln and humidity dropped to 36.  Left fans off till more sun shines. At 9-10% moisture in my 4 quarter wood, what do I need to see for humidity to have wood drying?

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 04:27:35 PM »
does the gauge tell you max. and min. RH and temp inside and outside.  I think no matter what, this is better than being outside.  I would check the MC in the wood at least every week, to see that it is stable or dropping.  not as much happening in a solar kiln in the winter.  just keeping it out of the rain, and super humid days, is a start.  My $14 accurite, can be looked at daily and record all that data in a notebook, or ledger in a computer.  I have a container of wood.  humidifier is off the past 2 months, and the wood is stable since it is dry and the container is sealed up.  I watch it on that thermometer.  the sensor push that @YellowHammer   likes can log that data for collection and graphing on your phone via app.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline scsmith42

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4967
  • Age: 59
  • Location: New Hill, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • He who dies with the most toys... WINS!!!
    • Share Post
    • Whispering Pines Farm
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 06:08:06 PM »
After reading comments about RH in kiln I put a gauge in. It has been 20s-40 degrees outside last week no sun. Started at 50%, today some early sun then clouded up again temp made it to 55 in the kiln and humidity dropped to 36.  Left fans off till more sun shines. At 9-10% moisture in my 4 quarter wood, what do I need to see for humidity to have wood drying?
You need to “see” an auxiliary form of heat!
Lumber does not dry much at 55f
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2020, 06:30:06 PM »
do you have electricity.  many here have added halogen work lights.  make sure you have a safe place.  it will take some juice.  you have fans so up to you if you want to speed it up.  or a wood stove ect.  the trouble is the solar roof will loose a lot if the heat.  waste wood not a big deal, electricity or NG/propane will cost more and the heat will go out through the roof panel.  For a heated kiln, you need all 6 sides of the kiln to be insulated.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2796
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2020, 11:05:38 AM »
In general, we can run the fans and get drying when the tenperature is 15 F warmer inside. 20 F warmer is even better, in general.

To be specific, we need to know the species, thickness and MC average (not core).

You do not need an RH meter, but it can be fun to look at now and then.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2020, 04:52:01 PM »
doc and scsmith, not in a hurry so will wait for more sun. I just did not run fans for nothing. When the temp gets 80 or above we will go back at it.

Gene, What is meant by thick essays? Kiln has red oak and sycamore in it now.

I have been cutting birch blk&yel. Hope to cut and skid blk gum and gray elm out in the am. Saw as weather gets above 40 degrees.  Stacking and covering to start air drying. 

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2020, 05:36:26 PM »
It can set for now as long as the RH does not get too high.  low MC in the wood so no mold ect. what kind of moisture meter are you using, or are you doing oven dry method.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2796
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2020, 10:37:55 PM »
I corrected the error.  I had my knee replaced so some posts are not so good.

In terms of temperature, 50 F is the minimum.  But if 50 F occurs first thing in the morning, chances are good that the humidity inside and outside is really high.  So, we wait until the temperature difference, inside to outside is 20 F roughly.  This will happen when there is sun power coming into the kiln.  Or, you can just run on the basis of time...9AM to 6PM or similar.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2020, 10:49:16 PM »
@GeneWengert-WoodDoc  I plan on seeing you at the sawing project 2020 in Georgia.  Do you have any formal Kiln classes near me coming up on basic and or advanced Kiln drying technique?  I really enjoy the topic and your presentation of it.  thanks!  Best Regards.
I hope soon I can invite you here and maybe build a solar kiln.  the one class in Virginia fell through and I have heard nothing more about it.  
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2796
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Share Post
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2020, 11:26:18 PM »
Basic Drying Class.  The NHLA is sponsoring a Basic Class, May 4-6.  I am the Instructor.  I enjoy teaching, and try to be very practical.

Advanced Drying Class.  This will follow the Basic Class, May 6-7.  Again,,I am the instructor..

Both classes are in Memphis.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Online doc henderson

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3205
  • Age: 59
  • Location: Hutchinson, Ks
  • Gender: Male
  • Evil Prevails when Good Men Standby and Do Nothing
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2020, 07:57:20 AM »
Thanks for the information.  we can talk more in April.  we are considering getting another property to move the mill and equipment to.  has a cabin, and pond with tons of fish.  if so, we will plan to build a solar kiln, and poss. add a DH later as well.  75 acres and would be a nice place for a future FF get together.  prob. still a year out, but might see if there would be interest. 
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline farmfromkansas

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Age: 68
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2020, 09:52:42 AM »
Doc, what a great idea.  Also plan a solar kiln, been debating a large rear door vs a 36" walk in door.  The walk in door would be much easier to seal, but a lot harder to load.

Offline scsmith42

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4967
  • Age: 59
  • Location: New Hill, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • He who dies with the most toys... WINS!!!
    • Share Post
    • Whispering Pines Farm
Re: Cold Weather Solar
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2020, 05:33:07 PM »
Doc, what a great idea.  Also plan a solar kiln, been debating a large rear door vs a 36" walk in door.  The walk in door would be much easier to seal, but a lot harder to load.
I'd advise you to follow the Virginia Tech design.  Well thought out and very practical.
End loading a kiln through a 36" door is a major pain.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
Solar Kiln for Use in our Cold Canadian Winters

Started by Coon on Drying and Processing

10 Replies
2808 Views
Last post December 01, 2005, 08:02:42 PM
by Quebecnewf
xx
Need some cold weather!

Started by reswire on General Board

14 Replies
705 Views
Last post August 26, 2014, 10:00:36 AM
by red oaks lumber
xx
Cold weather food

Started by Qweaver on FOOD! FOOD! FOOD!

4 Replies
1137 Views
Last post March 27, 2010, 01:49:05 AM
by CHARLIE
xx
cold weather staring

Started by timberjack 450 on Forestry and Logging

7 Replies
940 Views
Last post January 25, 2014, 08:41:23 PM
by BargeMonkey
 


Powered by EzPortal