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Author Topic: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding  (Read 968 times)

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Offline jeepcj779

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Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« on: February 07, 2020, 12:21:35 AM »
  I am planning to re-side a couple barns with B+B siding from 20-30" SYP logs. It will be 4/4 10" boards and 3" battens, borate treated then nailed up green inside-out. I have done some searching on the forum, so I think I know how to nail it up OK. What I don't know is how to saw for the best yield from the available logs, and also what type of cut is best for B+B (flat/plain, rift, or quarter sawn), or if it even matters. Many of the illustrations I have seen look like flat or rift sawn boards are used.
  Most folks seem to square a cant, starting with the "hump" side up, then saw 4/4 straight down to the bed, turning when necessary for stress relief. If done that way, I would end up with all three types of cuts. What method is best for getting the maximum yield of usable lumber from the available logs while also producing the cut most suited to B+B siding? Also, if I were to cut some larger pines, say in the 40" range, should I be saving the heart wood for something better than B+B siding? Thanks.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2020, 12:58:15 AM »
Well, if I had a pile of 20"-30" SYP and they were pretty clear logs then I would not put those into B+B siding.  I would QS them for flooring or other grade lumber and find some nice 16"-20" logs for the B+B then flat saw them.  Hump up or down is better than to the side as you can deal with bow easily in siding, where crook, or side slip, is going to cause you issues. 

As far as heart wood goes - the question becomes is it true heart wood, or is it still juvenile wood that has not filled with resin yet?  Generally there will be more knots as you get to the center of the log so that is something to consider also.  If you have true lighter wood, and it's clear, then it's worth a lot more as QS flooring than barn siding, but if it's empty juvenile wood then I tend to turn it into dimensional lumber as long as the grade is good enough, otherwise it becomes a 4x or 6x.  The empty wood will be drier and lighter in weight than the sap wood so the difference will be obvious.  
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Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2020, 02:29:01 AM »
I can probably find some smaller trees if that is the case. There are plenty of pines in my area, and even if I cannot find enough on my own land, there may be some available from neighbors or tree services. Unfortunately, I don't have anywhere to properly dry or store QS lumber, and I don't have any planing equipment to make it into flooring. In any case, I don't know if the trees I have are old enough to have real heart pine, and since they are not growing in a "forest", they probably don't have the closely spaced growth rings people seem to prefer.

Offline millwright

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2020, 06:15:24 AM »
I saw a lot of b&b and just make a cant, and start sawing. As long as the boards behave I dont flip it. Usually can put the boards up right away and put them butted together. Then if they shrink some the joints will be covered by battens

Offline Don P

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2020, 06:22:36 AM »
There are certainly places where quartersawn shines. I'm not sure that this would be one of them although I can sit on a pail and argue either side of that. High quality clapboard was riven and later sawn in Q-S. It will shrink less in the width direction as it seasons but it also splits more easily. I don't think that I would be intentionally q-sawing for this use. Heartwood is more decay resistant and I've noticed a marked preference for white pine sapwood by carpenter bees compared to heartwood right beside it. They go for soft and easy.
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2020, 06:29:47 AM »
I usually saw 10 & 3 inch board and bat siding, and I most often flatsaw it!

I think you'll find that you don't have much waste, regardless of the size log you start with!
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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2020, 08:46:47 AM »
A 15"-18" log is the best size to end with 10" wide boards.  I saw off the to get a cant of the target size then just saw through, turning 180 as needed.  The jacket boards make good battens, since flat sawn is better for that.  Like Southside said, when you get down to the knots, it may be best to flip and saw the other side down to the knots and then make a 4x4 or whatever from the center of the log.  Just depends on the knots.  Small and tight are ok, large and loose knots aren't usually desirable on siding.  Take what the log gives you.  With a larger logs, I'll still make a target size cant and just have more side lumber.  Some of that may be high grade and saved for another purpose, or edged and sized into battens or the 10" siding boards.  

I think the main thing is have plenty of logs so you don't spend too much time trying to get all your siding sawed.  I usually end up with a lot nice clear, wide boards to use for some higher purpose when I'm making siding.
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Offline frazman

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2020, 09:11:41 AM »
Since the subject of B & B has come up, is there a certain way to install the boards with the grain. Should the grain ( smile ) face the building or away ?

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2020, 09:22:21 AM »
Smile goes toward the outside. 
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Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2020, 12:25:05 PM »
"Inside-out". The inside of the log is the pith side, and it should be hung facing out.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2020, 12:45:34 PM »
I would saw out those 1x10 any old way unless splits are encountered. Why green? , this time of year put on sticks cross ways to the prevailing winds and they will air dry some and be much better.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2020, 03:09:39 PM »
Green because I don't have anywhere to store it while drying, unless I just put it on pallets outside under metal. Also, I don't want to saw more than I need, so I will cut a tree, saw, hang boards, and repeat until I am done. With all the variables mentioned in previous posts about heartwood, knots, and the fact that most of my pines are growing in semi-open conditions, I don't know what kind of yield I will get from each tree. If I get started and discover I have a bunch of lumber that is more suited to flooring or dimensional purposes, I can pause the siding job and put up a pole barn instead. I'll have to build one for the mill anyway, so maybe I'll just build two.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2020, 03:51:16 PM »
Think about your battens . I  bought and restored a 100 + year old house. The battens were beveled on the sides. It is a pain to duplicate this with out a molder but works with a table saw.the look is worth it.
 
 
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Offline Don P

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2020, 04:21:19 PM »
I do like the look of those beveled battens.
We did a barn not long ago and I just put a roundover bit in the router to dress them up a little. I put the pretty face out, the batten restrains the cup.





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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2020, 06:56:43 PM »
Don P,
Any trouble with those boards splitting as the boards dry due to multiple fasteners and shrinking?

slider,
I think it would look nice, but that is almost 6000 ft of table sawing. I will have to run a few through the table saw and see how long it takes and how good it looks to determine if that is worth it or not. How much bevel?

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2020, 07:08:47 PM »
Those boards were dry but I've used the same method green, keep the screws no more than 4-5 inches apart (about my fist held up in front of the board) in the center of the board and the batten screws go through the gap between boards. If you pin the edges it will split.
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2020, 09:23:55 PM »
Howdy Jeep.

I'm only about 45 minutes from Dunn and can help you out with the T&G.

What I've done here on the farm is to put siding up green, random width, around 7/8" thick, with 3/4" x 3" battens.  The slightly thinner board and battens allow me to use a nail gun shooting 3-1/2" nails and have decent nail embeddment for the battens.

If I were you, I'd take down my 12" - 20" trees first, and mill them into the siding.  Get the barn built and then use your larger diameter logs for QS flooring, which you can air dry inside the barn.

I'll be happy to work something out with you on turning your QS into flooring.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2020, 09:27:32 PM »
  so I will cut a tree, saw, hang boards, and repeat until I am done.  
That's how I did mine.  ;)  
 I did use 4 inch battens on the horse run in. I saw it on a shed that I drove by for six months,each day on the way to work,before I saw someone outside to ask about it. 10 inch boards,4 inch battens.
I would say,just saw away and build. Or that's what I did.
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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2020, 10:28:41 PM »
scsmith42,
 I appreciate the offer. I will likely take you up on that when the time comes.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2020, 10:54:13 PM »
My neighbor has a house nearby and instead of batten he just alternated the same size boards as the batten but wider spaced, solved the problem of small battens movement, splitting or bowing showing gaps.  Looks better than small batten to me.  me I just finished a barn and I just used random saw round waste slabs to overlap the gaps, or you can use live edge smaller pieces.  For the barn doors I took the waste slabs edged them on the mill so they would butt up flush, so they are round on the outside flush side by side with the straight board finish on the inside.  Something to think about when you see those large piles of waste slabs and you scratch your head and wonder should I just burn this etc.
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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2020, 12:32:26 AM »
 I have a bark spud I bought for building with logs. I could use that to remove the bark prior to milling if I think I want to use the flitches for doors or other uses.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2020, 10:01:30 AM »
As far as the sawing procedure, I like to flat saw on 2 opposing sides of the cant (which would be a 10" cant if your wanting 10" boards), flipping 180 as needed to reduce stress. Saw the cant down till it is at the target width of your battens. So that would be a 3x10 cant in this case. At that point turn the cant on it's side and saw into battens. Center the pith in your 10x10 to start with and you will have little waste on account of the pith. 
Anyways, that is how I have sawed our BB siding, although we have been using oak and the logs have been quite a bit smaller than your 30" specimens.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2020, 12:13:12 PM »
The way you just described your method makes a lot of sense. As others have recommended, I will likely try to find and use 15" +/- logs to make my target 10" cant. I thought about using oak as well, but I decided against it because I read that white oak does not behave as well as many other woods as it dries. And it is heavier than the pine.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2020, 12:21:40 PM »
FWIW Poplar makes an excellent siding, has been used for a long time in that application. 
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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2020, 01:20:38 PM »
I looked in to using poplar, but I don't think I have enough to do the job. I have lots of pine though.

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Re: Type/Method of Cut for Board and Batten Siding
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2020, 05:01:08 PM »
Jeep think about what you use to attach the siding with. When i restored my house and made it larger. I used an air nail gun . on the side that got direct sun after a few years the nails walked out. some over an inch. i will uses screws next time. The side getting the sun was the only problem . Good luck with your project.
al glenn


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