The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:

iDRY Vacuum Kilns


Forestry Forum
Sponsored by:


TimberKing Sawmills



Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Norwood Industries Inc.




Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades

Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

Michigan Firewood, your BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

FARMA


Baker Products

ECHO-Bearcat

iDRY Wood Lumber Vacuum Drying for everyon

Nyle Kiln Dry Systems






Author Topic: Hard wood flooring buckleing?  (Read 467 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« on: February 10, 2020, 09:41:11 AM »
I have T&G red oak paneling in my basement. I run a dehumidifier in the spring-fall. But it still buckles some. I plan to use mixed wood on my floor, QS red and white oak, sycamore, birch, maple, hickory, elm, willow, locust and black gum. Most wood not QS. Will I have the same problem? My sub floor is hemlock, white pine with 7/16 osb over it. Hope to remove carpet and install. Wall t&g is not over nailed,4 or 5  nails over 8' up to 8" wide boards. What keeps these boards flat on the floor, more nails? Thanks  

Offline DR_Buck

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2938
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Farmville VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Nuff said.....
    • Share Post
    • Got Logs?
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 10:00:02 AM »
I would never install wood on a basement floor.  But that's me and my preference.     If you have to use a dehumidifier to minimize paneling from expanding and buckling you are definatley getting moisture in, possibly through the walls or the seam along the floor/wall joint.  I would be more concerned with mold growth behind it. 

At my last place, which had a ground level slab floor,  before putting down hardwood (bamboo) to minimize moisture from rising up through the floor I sealed the concrete.   First with a thinned roofing tar spread with a squeegee  covered with a layer of black felt paper.   I then covered that with a layer of 6 mil black poly (plastic).   This was then topped with a final layer of 3/4" plywood fastened with Tapcon screws into the concrete.    Then I installed the hardwood.    
Hidden Acres Farm
Been there, done that.   Never got caught

Wood-Mizer LT40 Super- Wide HDG38
Lucas Dedicated 60" Slabber

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 12:16:50 PM »
I did not explain this well. The t&g is on the wall in the basement. The flooring is going on the floor above, 1st floor not basement.

Online Southside

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5764
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2020, 12:20:29 PM »
Was the wall material kiln dried? Is there a back relief cut into the wall paneling? The 8" material is not helping you. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6272
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2020, 02:33:24 PM »
Hard to say without knowing the humidity below and above. Narrower strip will move less per board than wide plank, prefinished is sealed on both sides but ultimately knowing and having control of the rh is the best thing.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline Bruno of NH

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3674
  • Age: 54
  • Location: Springfield NH
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2020, 03:49:18 PM »
I have installed my thousand linft of t & g over the years
I have found 8" wide and up needs a face nail or two in the face to keep it flat.
Same goes for wide flooring counter sunk screws with plugs or cut nails and glue on wide pine floors.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 03:20:26 PM »
When I say buckle I think what is happening is the wood expands  and pushes out a board. Then dries some in the winter and pulls back leaving a gap. I did not relieve the back like I should have but the wood was varnished both sides then installed. I am not having a problem with boards cupping. This was kiln dried wood.  My t&g cutters  seemed to tight and maybe I should not have put it so tight together. Wood is 2" to 8" wide random width. Or left room at the corners to expand. I did not over nail either, just enough to hold on the wall.  So what will keep my floor from doing the same?

Online Southside

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 5764
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Wilsons (Dinwiddie County), VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Have a plan to saw every log you meet.
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2020, 03:32:29 PM »
The purpose of the back relief is to allow the individual board a place to move within itself before it pushes onto the next one. Make sure you get your wood down to 7pct MC, mill in back reliefs and consider keeping it under 8" wide. 
Franklin buncher and skidder
JD Processor
Woodmizer LT Super 70 and LT35 sawmill, KD250 kiln, BMS 250 sharpener and setter
Riehl Edger
Woodmaster 725 and 4000 planner and moulder
Enough cows to ensure there is no spare time.

Offline Wudman

  • Forester
  • *
  • Posts: 549
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Keysville, VA
  • Gender: Male
  • Eat, drink, and be merry before you go on quota!
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2020, 12:01:31 PM »
Your issue in the basement is moisture (humidity).  The wood is picking up enough moisture that it is expanding and doesn't have enough room to move and thus buckles.  That is the reason that most commercial production run flooring is narrow (that and cost of raw material). 

For your upstairs, that issue should be minimized.  Your heat source (translated humidity levels) will dictate the movement in your floors.  If it is fairly constant throughout the season, you won't have any issues.  If you have wide swings in humidity, the floor will expand and contract with the moisture content.

I have a fairly new home that is very airtight.  As we have a number of dogs in the house, I wanted a flooring material that was very durable.  I went with Pergo laminate in "Rustic Hickory".  This stuff is hard as nails and is supposed to be quite stable.  With that said, during the winter, my floor will open several gaps between boards in the length direction.  From my mudroom to the master bedroom there is a 61' linear run of this Pergo.  Several 3/8 inch gaps will open during the winter at joints.  It will move back together in the spring when the heat is shut off and the humidity increases.

I have electric heat pumps with gas logs supplementing the great room.  My basement is heated with a forced air wood furnace.  At this moment, it is 70 degrees in my basement with 44% relative humidity.  Relative humidity dictates the comfort level for humans and wood.

Wudman

Offline DPatton

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 745
  • Age: 54
  • Location: SE, Nebraska
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • D & S Sawmill Services
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2020, 07:20:39 PM »
Did you leave enough space for seasonal expansion and contraction around the perimeter of your T&G wood? There has to be enough space at the edges for this expansion or it will bow the wood up and out. Large wood floor areas like a gymnasium floor require as much as 2 of relief space at the perimeter of the installation for such seasonal expansion. I would say that a typical house sized room installation should probably have at least a 1/2 gap or more for expansion at the perimeter of a wood floor.
TimberKing 1600, 30' gooseneck trailer, Chevy HD2500, Echo Chainsaw, 60" Logrite.

Work isn't so bad when you enjoy what your doing.
D & S Sawmill Services

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2020, 04:56:59 PM »
No I did not allow for expansion. Is this typical for hard wood flooring 1/2" gap around outside?

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6272
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2020, 05:17:17 PM »
Typically 1/4", base shoe runs 1/2x3/4 although there is usually a 3/4 baseboard as well but not always. My Dad ran tight and to my knowledge none of those houses has ever had a buckling problem. The only time I've had cupping, not even buckling, is when liquid water hits the floor from a leak or huge spill and gets under it. When I was a teenager another contractor friend tried an experiment. He put down the oak floor on top of the subfloor and was then going to frame fast and get it dried in. He was hoping to save the time of working around the interior walls. Well, he got the walls up and we had a big rain, the swelling oak took the exterior eave walls right off the floor.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart

Offline tacks Y

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Location: NW Pa
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
    • Share Post
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2020, 08:31:28 AM »
So another question??  Do any of you install flooring butting the ends? (Not t&g on the end)

Online Don P

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 6272
  • Location: Southwestern VA
  • Gender: Male
    • Share Post
    • Calculator Index
Re: Hard wood flooring buckleing?
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2020, 01:54:46 PM »
I have, most factory flooring is end matched but stuff from small shops is often not. End matching actually comes from a code provision that allowed using T&G flooring single ply, without a subfloor, if it was end matched, adjacent joints did not occur in the same bay and pieces spanned at least 2 joists. Everyone has forgotten that reason and so the common misconception is that you have to have it. That said if it is other than relatively narrow strip I would end match.

It would be a good idea to get a cheap digital thermometer/hygrometer and start getting a feel for the rh upstairs and in the basement.
A laborer works with his hands
A craftsman uses his brain and his hands
An artist uses his brain, his hands, and his heart


Share via delicious Share via digg Share via facebook Share via linkedin Share via pinterest Share via reddit Share via stumble Share via tumblr Share via twitter

xx
1 by 4 hard wood flooring

Started by carver45 on General Board

4 Replies
1027 Views
Last post October 22, 2010, 09:57:23 PM
by D Hagens
xx
hard pine flooring

Started by coxy on General Board

22 Replies
1632 Views
Last post August 18, 2016, 11:18:48 PM
by cliffreaves
xx
wood flooring

Started by Wyatt on Drying and Processing

4 Replies
1609 Views
Last post January 09, 2005, 06:51:17 AM
by devo
xx
Wood Flooring

Started by Jacar on Sawmills and Milling

3 Replies
1096 Views
Last post March 19, 2004, 10:32:40 AM
by Jacar
 


Powered by EzPortal