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Author Topic: New Shed in the Works  (Read 1179 times)

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Offline WV Sawmiller

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New Shed in the Works
« on: February 14, 2020, 06:54:52 PM »
  I know none of the rest of you have ever run out of storage space but first I built a 14'X62' pole barn. It filled up so I built shelves and went vertical. All of them filled up. I nailed a tarp to the end and that space is full of benches and the tarp is wearing out. I have stacks of lumber on blocks in the pasture with metal roofing on top and logs I have not sawed because no place to put them.

  I finally decided to build another shed/pole barn in my lower lot. I have to back off at least 10' from an overhead power line running from a transformer on a pole in my pasture across the creek and road to a neighbor's place. I bought a bunch of good used metal roofing in 11-18 ft lengths (total 180 running feet and 3' wide). I tried digging holes and setting poles there but it is tough digging due to the rocks and such. I got the 2 poles for the short end set then Wednesday I stopped and picked up my auger I bought with my used tractor 2 years ago. I spend a good bit of the day yesterday trying to free up the link to the PTO which I had removed from the head of the auger. I put it in a vice and used a pipe wrench got the 2 parts rotating but not sliding in and out freely. I think I moved it 6-8 inches. I used plenty of WD40 and got a can of PB Blaster rust remover last night and put it on today. I finally chained one end to the upright on my pole barn and the other to the ball hitch on my ATV and finally got it free. I soaked the female side good with rust remover and took my belt sander to the male section till it was shiny. I sprayed it and put them together and they worked freely. I drained and put 2 quarts of gear oil in the auger head and can likely use a little more. Found a 4" bolt to hold the 10" bit on the auger head and I was in business.

  I measured., marked drilled the other front corner 28" from the first and dug about 2' till impassable rock. I set that corner which was very solid then marked and dug the next hole about 28" and broke the bolt connecting my auger head and bit. I pulled the bit out with my FEL and set that pole which went up real well. If the weather permits and no major equipment problems I will drill and set the next/final front pole then I can mark and dig the back then middle poles.

  Looks like my internal dimensions will be 12' short end, 28' on the front, about 20' on the long end and whatever the diagonal on the back works out to be for my trapezoid shaped shed/barn. I will need 3 internal poles I figure on the wide end of the barn/shed and some spans up to 16-18 ft on the narrow end with 12-18 inch overhang. I figure 12'-13' height on the front and 10' or so on the back.  Then I'll start sawing some more long framing to fit the distances involved. Having a mill caused this problem but will solve it too. I figure I will use some of my metal roofing to help square things up when I start framing and putting on my nailers for my metal. That is faster and easier than figuring angles and such for me.


 One more pole for the front, the 3 corners are set. I'll probably have to move my that last stack of mostly 5/8" ash siding back against the fence. Odd shape lot, lots of rock and a couple feet in elevation change which is pretty flat for WV.

   Once built I will have to decide if I want to enclose it or not. I can't come forward more because of overhead power lines. I will store my benches and maybe prefab a bus stop or two to keep in here and fill in the rest of the space with mantels and LE slabs and such. This may be weeks to months before finished depending on weather and lake levels for fishing (Gotta keep priorities straight!).

Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline brianJ

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 07:34:10 PM »
There are three immutable laws of sheds that are as immutable as Murphy's law.

First you have already discovered Law one is Sheds are never big enough.

Second law is go much longer because length is cheap sq footage as the end walls and and overhead doors are the expensive parts.

Third iaw is to go real high like 14 foot or more at the eaves because when you run into the space issue from law one you can put a lean to off the side for more cheap square footage

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 08:07:12 PM »
   All three laws look right. Also it is good to go for longer overhangs which help protect the walls and makes it easier for making those lean to's.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline btulloh

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2020, 08:12:46 PM »
Always good to be making progress on additional storage. Im curious why youre making it a trapezoid.  Must be a good reason, but I missed it if it was in your post. 
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2020, 09:32:41 PM »
  I am making it Trapezoid to fit the lot space. The front is parallel to the power lines, the ends go back to the fence then angle along the wood line till I run out of usable space due to a rock bar and boulders at the upper end. Remember flat land in WV is at a premium and it often comes in small patches and odd shapes. Even this piece drops 2-3 ft in elevation on a 28' run. See the height difference between the poles on that front run. The height of my lowest pole is my limiting height factor unless I want to start stair stepping, which I also considered.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline btulloh

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2020, 09:51:36 PM »
Roger.  Thanks for that explanation.  Making the best of the situation at hand.  Makes sense.
HM126

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2020, 10:44:17 PM »
   Yeah, my preference would have been a rectangle or square but I need all the space I can get even if it is a corner.

   BTW - did you know why many African huts were built round? Because they believe evil spirits are little men who hide in the corners. That is also one of the reasons they built their beds up high so the little men could not jump up while they were asleep. (I suspect snakes and bugs on the floor may have also influenced that decision which I heartily endorse. I know - a little off track but inquiring minds want to know. :D)
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline btulloh

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2020, 11:06:50 PM »
Good thing to know.  Maybe sawmill sheds should be round.  Then the evil spirits wouldn't raise the backstops just as I'm making a pass.   :D :D
HM126

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2020, 11:51:58 PM »
Hmm I have a couple empty round grain bin slabs, so no evil spirits hmmm..maybe I should put my hay equipment in a round shed..... Nice start on your new one btw.

Offline millwright

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2020, 07:48:54 AM »
Looks good.  I have the same problem, have to build around the rocks. Most are too big to move

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2020, 07:46:56 PM »
   Put a carriage bolt in my auger bit and promptly broke that so went to local hardware store and bought a couple of 7/16" grade 8 bolts. Drilled 4 more holes but 2 were only a foot or so deep before I hit big rocks. I'll have to put the other poles up on either side so I can nail the framing up to hold the poles in place. The more I add the stronger it will get. I got the final corner installed. The back side will be 30'4" outside to outside and the long end is 22' outside to outside. I got one more pole installed on the back, moved a stack of wood, dropped it and had to restack it. The auger has a hard time in the rocks but is sure a lot easier than manually digging the holes. I need to saw some 2X12's to run the rafters across and grab a string and snap some lines. I snap a string the nail a short, scrap 2X4 or 2X6 at the mark as a shelf to rest the heavy framing on. It is a bear to get these big heavy poles and framing up by myself. The tractor and FEL and auger is a huge help but an extra set of hands would make life so much easier and faster just to hold a pole plumb or tamp it in while it is in position. Oh well, all 4 corners are up and a couple of line poles.


 Outside measurements now front 28'. lower end 12', upper end 22' and back 30'4". Low corner is 9'6" which will be max height of the back unless I decide to stair step the roof. I'll probably extend the roof 18" on all sides.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2020, 08:09:33 PM »
This is gonna be cool when it's done! Around here we wouldn't hit any rock until we got at least an inch down. :D
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here. OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2020, 09:07:48 PM »
OGH,

   I typically tell folks if you dig 6" and haven't hit a rock to immediately stop because you are over the gas or water line and somebody has already moved the rock that used to be there. :D I guess it is kind of like the guys who pour footers then build on that. Our footers are already there on you have to guess the depth before you find them. It sure makes it a challenge when you are thinking to dig down about 30" or so so the ground will hold your pole upright till you get it plumb and tamped.

   Years ago my FIL in Ala told my BIL who was building a big pole barn to just dig the holes, put the poles in place then the framing would square everything up as he installed it then to fill and tamp the dirt around the poles. Makes sense that should work. 
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2020, 09:39:56 PM »
I used to live in a place where you could dig a 4' hole (by hand, with just a shovel) and would not have enough rocks to fill a gallon bucket, all nice round quartz rocks. But where I am now, well, not so much. I dug 3 holes 20 years ago to rebuild my attached porch for the 12" sono-tube. It took me 2 weeks in the evenings with a pick, shale bar, and small shovel. I got down 3' and hit shelf. I showed the building inspector. He laughed. He said drill a few holes, drop rebar in the shelf and pour your tubes. SO I did.
 I have a shelf under my place the is 2' above grade at the road edge and slopes to 4' below grade at the back edge of my property. It's all clay, bluestone, and shelf. Digging holes here is always the hardest and biggest part of any project. Don't ask what we had to do to put the 1,000 gallon septic tank in the yard. That was quite a deal which included two big track hoes (one with a hammer), a skid steer (which fell in the hole, but another story), and lots of dump loads. Basically the guy cut a square hole through the shelf about 12' deep. The leach field was another issue.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here. OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2020, 10:26:06 PM »
   My son lives 10.3 miles up the road from me and his place sounds like you describe. He bought a pre-fab home they brought in and assembled on site. He was going to dig a basement about 8' below ground to set the house on so it would sit about ground level but he hit bedrock at about 2' so now you walk up about 6' of steps to get to his porch and enter his house. He occasionally has a large hardwood tree uproot and you see the roots went down about 2' then spread widely. They went to drill his well, hit water at about 30' but dug/drilled to 300' hoping for a bigger stream then gave up and use that 300' as his reservoir. I grew up in Fla where we had no rocks. If we dug a well we had to case it as we went or the sand and gravel would fill in behind you. Around here they typically do not case wells. Our biggest problem when digging a post hole  was there was not enough clay in the soil to get the clump to stay together so we could lift it out with the hole diggers. We had a family chain link fence business so I was pretty good at digging post holes. In fact my dad used to sign paperwork and put PhD at the end of his signature. When some one questioned him he told them he had earned it as he was a Post hole Digger. :D
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2020, 11:05:35 PM »
OK, one last little tid-bit, then I gotta hit the rack. Where I live is an old area, the stone industry dates back about 200 years and a lot of the bluestone that lined the city streets in New York came from here and specifically within a 10 mile circle of my house. The cobble stones, the bluestone that buildings were faced with and sidewalks were laid with. Bluestone mining and cutting is still an industry here, but much smaller. The road I live on was one of those where they transported the heavy stone boats (steel tired wagons) carrying the big slabs to the railroad depot in town (now underwater in the reservoir which feeds water to NYC ironically, they bought our stone, then took our water).  The road was paved with bluestone to handle the weight of the wagons and those wagons wore grooves in the bluestone 3" deep. Those slabs popped up here and there during different modern road projects. I have a piece on my front lawn. Most folks don't know what they are. My neighbors has one and he doesn't know what it is.
 Oh, and the road I live on, its called Stone Road. Had that name for a very long time. Everybody on this road with a couple of acres can pull either crushed stone or slabs out of their property without much effort.
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) I mill for fun and my mental health. NYLT Certified.

I ain't the woodcutter, but I can cut wood 'til the woodcutter gets here. OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2020, 07:21:40 AM »
Since I am not building a shed, is it OK for me to get excited about your build??  ???  8)
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2020, 08:22:25 PM »
   I am running into some shallow post holes due to mean rocks so decided I better start putting some framing up to hold everything in place. I checked and found several nice pine 2X12's 12' long that will work for my top plates but I either had to cut a 14' 2X6 to 12' or saw another to frame the short end and I'll need those longer boards for rafters and such later so I went and cut a stock ash log and got 6 2X6X12's and a couple of 2X4's out of it. Of course my busy body neighbor stopped by but he bought $50 worth of lumber and such so it was okay.

I started at the low corner and put up 2X12X12 as a top plate on the back run. My FEl would not reach that high so I put it as close as I could the used a 14' extension ladder to hold one end up nearly level then I drilled the plate and the upright with a 1/4" spade bit - I really need to find my 1/4" auger as it cuts a lot faster - then I nailed a couple of 6" (40d) nails/spikes into the upright then moved to the other upright and nailed it the same. Next I nailed the fresh cut 2X6 across the end using the same process so now I had one corner secured.

I measured and dug the next hole which yielded some respectable rocks but finally got about 18" before I hit a boulder. I lifted the pole with the FEL and was able to tamp enough dirt and rocks around it to hold it upright overnight, I hope. Turns out it is about 15' between the front and back so looks like I'm going to have to add another pole and an intermediate pole because of the distance. The more I work on this the more I feel like Sheriff Little Bill (Gene Hackman) in The Unforgiven. I should have filmed this and added this build to one of the TV self help/DIY series but I don't know if the comedy channel would accept it. ::)


 Nearly ran out of light before I got this picture. You can barely see the 2X6 tying the end together. All the poles on the front are in place and the one left of the stepladder I installed today and it is next in line for a top plate. I'll nail a short 2X4 to the corner post 2-3 ft above the 2X6 to determine to roof slope. I'll lift the next 2X12, tie or chain the corner, raise, level and nail to the new post. I could not locate my string level and may have to invest another $1.38 for another pair tomorrow if I do't find it then.

I have about decided to stair step the roof otherwise the height on the left side will only be about 6-7 ft high. The right side shown will be just under 10'.

If the picture looks a little skewed remember the back is not square with the front.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2020, 12:10:52 PM »
   I had a few minutes this morning so I went out and put up another 12' 2X12 as a top plate for the front. I set it 30" higher than the back. I nailed a short 2X4 on the corner pole as a shelf, lifted the 2X12 up and set it on it and chained it in place. I went to nail the other end and almost pushed the shallow rooted pole over I installed last night so I had to straighten and nail a temporary brace to it. My FEL would not lift high enough so I ended up standing in it's bucket to work while I drilled and nailed the end to the pole. Then I moved to the corner and nailed it. I went to move my chain and found it had tightened when I lifted the 2X12 so I had to pull the cotter key from the hook bolt, take the hook off then reassemble it. I need to cut some more framing to brace the 15'6" span between the first line poles from front to back.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2009 4wd Dodge PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Sthil 440 & 441, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Offline stavebuyer

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Re: New Shed in the Works
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2020, 07:00:02 AM »
Most times an extra set of hands does not double the output. Rough framing is not one of those times.


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