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Author Topic: Small scale, low impact equipment advise  (Read 1969 times)

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Offline Skeans1

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2020, 09:47:39 PM »
Thatís a pre commercial thinning machine and honestly what youíre talking about it would push that machine well past itís designed usage. Something to think about is more trips with something lighter better then something that might get the job faster or in one turn?

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2020, 11:10:08 PM »
Thatís a pre commercial thinning machine and honestly what youíre talking about it would push that machine well past itís designed usage. Something to think about is more trips with something lighter better then something that might get the job faster or in one turn?
What is the ideal machine, I definitely donít know, trying to see what is out there. My biggest restraint is my trails are 6í - 8í wide and that is one of my largest concerns is to to carry on those same size trail. 
The Terri machine is probably a machine that costs 100,000 maybe more? A six figure investment in 1 machine is maybe more than what I am ready to swallow. If I could find a machine that would do everything, which I think is hard (with my restrictions), I would entertain the idea with some serious thought. 
Being practical, I am looking for a equipment for a job that I probably conduct about 35-45% of yearly worked time. If I was a full time thinner then I might already have the 1 and done machine. 
Blue skies ahead

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #42 on: March 17, 2020, 04:50:18 AM »
Best way to put it is you need something a little bit bigger for your planned work. You can stagger your cutting to allow a little bigger machine well creating a look of a smaller trail, when it comes to corners you donít cut them you cut spurs off the main trail if needed. Laying out a job is a much of an art as cutting the job the itself.

Offline g_man

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #43 on: March 17, 2020, 10:50:30 AM »
Reading from my spec sheet:P PATU "525" has 16' reach and 1500 lbs; load capacity is 17600 lbs; load bed length 11'6", so can do 16' logs; load area is 21.5 ft2; PATU "80" trailer weight is 3680 lbs (2180 lbs +1500 lbs with grapple, rotator, control valve & stabilizers), total width 6'10", ground clearance 20.5".  What I really like is ability to twitch logs to edge of my lanes, then go out with PATU/Case 695 4wd (70hp) and lift full log with grapple over my trailer, cut, set log length into trailer, pull more log over trailer, etc until fully bucked up and in trailer.  Minimizes damage to the my woods as I'm not pulling around at an angle.  All the best, Rob.
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Sounds like the way to do it and keeps you on the trail. So you donít have to make big turns. I have made ďminiĒ landings every few hundred feet to I can back my winch across the trail and pull the logs to the main trail. Similar but a lot more work.
The more testimony that I get forwarding trailers are the way to go. Now to just narrow down the make, model, and add-ons.
I forget now which trailer I saw that had hydraulic drive, what they called 4 wheels drive. Definitely an interesting option.
Thanks for sharing !!
That tractor/forwarder set-up that thecfarm posted the link to in post #27 has hydraulic drive. It belonged to BillM or billm IIRC. You could look at his posts and gallery. he was very knowledgeable in equipment of that type and worked commercially. I believe I remember him stating that the hydraulic drive was almost a necessity for winter work in the snow.
gg

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #44 on: March 17, 2020, 03:39:53 PM »
Reading from my spec sheet:P PATU "525" has 16' reach and 1500 lbs; load capacity is 17600 lbs; load bed length 11'6", so can do 16' logs; load area is 21.5 ft2; PATU "80" trailer weight is 3680 lbs (2180 lbs +1500 lbs with grapple, rotator, control valve & stabilizers), total width 6'10", ground clearance 20.5".  What I really like is ability to twitch logs to edge of my lanes, then go out with PATU/Case 695 4wd (70hp) and lift full log with grapple over my trailer, cut, set log length into trailer, pull more log over trailer, etc until fully bucked up and in trailer.  Minimizes damage to the my woods as I'm not pulling around at an angle.  All the best, Rob.
(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Sounds like the way to do it and keeps you on the trail. So you donít have to make big turns. I have made ďminiĒ landings every few hundred feet to I can back my winch across the trail and pull the logs to the main trail. Similar but a lot more work.
The more testimony that I get forwarding trailers are the way to go. Now to just narrow down the make, model, and add-ons.
I forget now which trailer I saw that had hydraulic drive, what they called 4 wheels drive. Definitely an interesting option.
Thanks for sharing !!
That tractor/forwarder set-up that thecfarm posted the link to in post #27 has hydraulic drive. It belonged to BillM or billm IIRC. You could look at his posts and gallery. he was very knowledgeable in equipment of that type and worked commercially. I believe I remember him stating that the hydraulic drive was almost a necessity for winter work in the snow.
gg
Awesome thanks will definitely look back at that and gallery. 
Blue skies ahead

Offline John Mc

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #45 on: March 17, 2020, 04:17:52 PM »
Be prepared for some sticker shock when you price one of those Vimek forwarders you mentioned. Even the small ones are really expensive.

I'm hoping the logging expo still happens with the whole virus scare going on now. All of our schools are closed down (currently our local schools are closed till April 6, but there is a lot of speculation that this will be extended). Restaurants are closing or switching to takeout only.

From your name, I'm guessing you are in Ludlow, VT. I purchased a lightly used Metavic M95 forwarding trailer a year and a half ago from a guy down your way (in the boondocks south of Bridgewater). It's too small for what you want to do, but it has worked well for me so far. It matches my compact tractor and mid-sized pickup truck nicely. It has the self contained hydraulics, powered by a small Honda engine, so I can use it behind a pickup truck as well as with my tractor (not dependent on tractor hydraulics to operate). It has a winch with about 100' of cable, which comes in really handy. I have a logging winch, but generally don't have it on when pulling the forwarding trailer. Having that winch makes it a whole lot easier when loading - I don't have to pull up right next to each individual log. The previous owner also had electric brakes put on it when he purchased it. He had a brake controller from an old pickup that he hooked up, and just ran the brake lever manually when needed. With a larger tractor, that probably wouldn't be needed. But with a compact tractor, and running on our hills it the previous owner said it comes in handy (I still haven't hooked a controller up on my tractor yet, but I do appreciate the brakes when towing with my mid-size pickup). No hydraulic drive - It was not an option on this model, but most of my hills are not severe, and with the lighter loads, I've not had a problem so far. Since I'm not doing this for a living, I have the luxury of just not working when conditions get too gnarly.

I'm in Monkton, VT. If you want to stop by on your way up to the Logging Expo, you'll pass within a few miles of my place if you are coming up Rt 7. Happy to show you mine. As I said, too small for your needs, but it will give you an idea of Metavic's build quality, if you are considering one of their larger units. I also have a friend up in Lincoln who has a larger forwarding trailer which he pulls with a 60 HP (?) tractor. I think his is a Woody as well. I'm sure he'd be happy to let you check it out, if you wanted. Just let me know.

There are a number of people around here using a tractor in the woods. Even if you intend to stay on prepared trails, it's a good idea to install a belly pan and grill guard, and possibly engine guarding and operator protection as well. There is a fabrication guy a couple miles from me who is a genius with this type of guarding. He puts a lot of thought into his designs, suggesting small features I would not have even thought to ask for. HAppy to make that introduction as well, if you are interested (and might be able to arrange for you to see a larger tractor than mine that he did a nice custom install on).

If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #46 on: March 17, 2020, 09:35:38 PM »
Be prepared for some sticker shock when you price one of those Vimek forwarders you mentioned. Even the small ones are really expensive.

I'm hoping the logging expo still happens with the whole virus scare going on now. All of our schools are closed down (currently our local schools are closed till April 6, but there is a lot of speculation that this will be extended). Restaurants are closing or switching to takeout only.

From your name, I'm guessing you are in Ludlow, VT. I purchased a lightly used Metavic M95 forwarding trailer a year and a half ago from a guy down your way (in the boondocks south of Bridgewater). It's too small for what you want to do, but it has worked well for me so far. It matches my compact tractor and mid-sized pickup truck nicely. It has the self contained hydraulics, powered by a small Honda engine, so I can use it behind a pickup truck as well as with my tractor (not dependent on tractor hydraulics to operate). It has a winch with about 100' of cable, which comes in really handy. I have a logging winch, but generally don't have it on when pulling the forwarding trailer. Having that winch makes it a whole lot easier when loading - I don't have to pull up right next to each individual log. The previous owner also had electric brakes put on it when he purchased it. He had a brake controller from an old pickup that he hooked up, and just ran the brake lever manually when needed. With a larger tractor, that probably wouldn't be needed. But with a compact tractor, and running on our hills it the previous owner said it comes in handy (I still haven't hooked a controller up on my tractor yet, but I do appreciate the brakes when towing with my mid-size pickup). No hydraulic drive - It was not an option on this model, but most of my hills are not severe, and with the lighter loads, I've not had a problem so far. Since I'm not doing this for a living, I have the luxury of just not working when conditions get too gnarly.

I'm in Monkton, VT. If you want to stop by on your way up to the Logging Expo, you'll pass within a few miles of my place if you are coming up Rt 7. Happy to show you mine. As I said, too small for your needs, but it will give you an idea of Metavic's build quality, if you are considering one of their larger units. I also have a friend up in Lincoln who has a larger forwarding trailer which he pulls with a 60 HP (?) tractor. I think his is a Woody as well. I'm sure he'd be happy to let you check it out, if you wanted. Just let me know.

There are a number of people around here using a tractor in the woods. Even if you intend to stay on prepared trails, it's a good idea to install a belly pan and grill guard, and possibly engine guarding and operator protection as well. There is a fabrication guy a couple miles from me who is a genius with this type of guarding. He puts a lot of thought into his designs, suggesting small features I would not have even thought to ask for. HAppy to make that introduction as well, if you are interested (and might be able to arrange for you to see a larger tractor than mine that he did a nice custom install on).
Yea I am from there, quiet area most of the time but currently it is overrun with people flocking away from the cities.
Yea, hopefully things work out before the expo, but will have to wait and see.
Appreciate the opportunity and once I am back in VT I might take you up on that.
Depending on the location I use either one of a couple tractors up (50 or 90hp) or shovel dozer (jd350 or cat 919). More recently I have been using the shovel dozer.
With this in mind I have been considering the following for a trailer:
-self contained for variance in equipment
-hydraulic drive
-reach length, maybe extenda hoe style
-fold down or extend down legs
-length of trailer
I think the best bet is to visit some machines in person in the field if I can and then go to the expo I can and talk with some dealers.
The discussion about operator protection was the next topic I was going to make on the forums. I have operated some large excavators with front screen protection when using a jack hammer but all my current machines don’t have any sort of added protection. Something that I need to change for sure.
Always looking for recommendations of either bolt on or ideas for custom forestry protection ideas. Equipment: JD35, JD 60, JD 350, CAT D4, CAT 919, NH T5050, NH TC45, Oliver 1950 series

P.S. got a call back from the Vimek dealer and he said a new bicombi machine delivered to my door was $300,000 definitely caught me off guard. Unless I found a used machine for CONSIDERABLY less that’s out of the question. Realizing a trailer is more my speed. I have, or have access to a variety of equipment depending on the time of year and work flow. Nothing wrong with old equipment, maintained well and serviced can compete with new to the level that I need. 
Blue skies ahead

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2020, 10:55:20 PM »
Figure a good 100K+ is in the harvester head alone couple that with a machine that really has no market in North America itís going to be an expensive machine. Just an idea this machine is narrower then a Vimek from memory and youíre still at 10 feet wide on the row it just depends on planting as well as how the row trees look from the beginning. If we went out and measured most of the guys running tractors with the forwarder trailers Iím willing to bet most are right around 10 foot wide, running our full sized gear most of our trails arenít much wider then that.

Offline John Mc

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2020, 11:42:59 PM »
I assume you are looking for an off-road trailer.

Woody has already been mentioned. It and Metavic were two of the makes on my short list. I was looking for small and lightweight, and they had what I thought were two of the models that fit my needs best. Both companies make larger sizes that would be a better match for the tractors you mentioned.

Here's a link to Metavic's off road forwarding trailers. (Not too far a drive from the Expo.) You'd probably be looking at one of their 1400 - 1600 series (or possibly their 1150). Pete's Equipmentin Morrisville, VT sells them. I believe they have one of the 1150 series in stock.

Woody Equipment Log Loaders and Trailers

I hear Farma makes some good equipment as well, but I have not seen any of their stuff in our area yet.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2020, 07:46:34 AM »
 The expo has been canceled till Oct.
Ed K

Offline John Mc

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2020, 08:14:04 AM »
The expo has been canceled till Oct.
Bummer, but understandable.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2020, 03:06:18 PM »
I assume you are looking for an off-road trailer.

Woody has already been mentioned. It and Metavic were two of the makes on my short list. I was looking for small and lightweight, and they had what I thought were two of the models that fit my needs best. Both companies make larger sizes that would be a better match for the tractors you mentioned.

Here's a link to Metavic's off road forwarding trailers. (Not too far a drive from the Expo.) You'd probably be looking at one of their 1400 - 1600 series (or possibly their 1150). Pete's Equipmentin Morrisville, VT sells them. I believe they have one of the 1150 series in stock.

Woody Equipment Log Loaders and Trailers

I hear Farma makes some good equipment as well, but I have not seen any of their stuff in our area yet.
Yea, off road trailer is the way forward unless something else comes along. 
Company wise seems to be 3 main competition:
-Metavic Looking at model 1150m14/1150m16 or a little larger 1400/1600 series with the longest reaching boom, hydraulic drive, 
-Woody Looking at model 11-74 or 13-78 trailers with ideally w/ 150 hdt telescopic 
-Farma Looking at model 6.3/6.7-9F w/ the hydraulic 4 wheel drive w/ gen 3 crane
Also seen some decent looking trailers from 
-Farmi Looking at model FT 11 or FT 13
Blue skies ahead

Offline John Mc

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2020, 03:30:28 PM »
The longer reach is a great convenience. However, if I had to choose between that and a built-in winch, I'd go with the winch. It makes for far less repositioning of the trailer than even the longest boom available. Of course, if you can find one with both at a reasonable price, that's the way to go.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2020, 04:17:28 PM »
The longer reach is a great convenience. However, if I had to choose between that and a built-in winch, I'd go with the winch. It makes for far less repositioning of the trailer than even the longest boom available. Of course, if you can find one with both at a reasonable price, that's the way to go.
My plan currently sits that if I purchase a new machine then I would get a winch no matter what brand I decided on. If I find something reasonable used then I may have a different view on some of the requirements. 
Blue skies ahead

Offline barbender

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2020, 10:17:11 PM »
I've never used one of the small scale loaders, but my experience in operating an 18 tonne capacity forwarder on a daily basis tells me that trying to have too long of a reach with one of those loaders will be kind of fruitless- there's just not enough mass and power there ("it takes a pound to move a pound"). I would lean more towards a capable compact loader that is a good fit for the trailer you select, and have it equipped with a winch. Even with the big forwarder, at max extension (30') even if the machine will pick the load, it's a lot of strain on things. With a big log, I will reach out and grab one end, and just pull it in with the extension without lifting it, or only lifting one end. You could do the same with the winch, and save yourself about $400K😊
Too many irons in the fire

Offline John Mc

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #55 on: March 19, 2020, 04:10:38 PM »
Heard back from my friend in Lincoln, VT:

Quote
I have the Woody 130 with extended boom. Works good for me but if you are trying to move a good-sized 16í hardwood log, itís not big enough. I pull it with a JD 4066 which is a bit light also. I have to be careful not to load too heavy.
He said he's happy to show it to you, once the whole virus thing dies down. He will be bringing it to a lodge he runs in upstate New York in mid-May.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #56 on: March 19, 2020, 08:29:10 PM »
I have thought that having a trailer/loader on the back and a hyd winch and blade on the front would be the best of both worlds, able to use the winch with the trailer on and able to easily drop the trailer to get around in tight spots and winch logs to the wood road. In practice this may not hold true.

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2020, 10:20:02 PM »
Heard back from my friend in Lincoln, VT:

Quote
I have the Woody 130 with extended boom. Works good for me but if you are trying to move a good-sized 16í hardwood log, itís not big enough. I pull it with a JD 4066 which is a bit light also. I have to be careful not to load too heavy.
He said he's happy to show it to you, once the whole virus thing dies down. He will be bringing it to a lodge he runs in upstate New York in mid-May.
Yea this hole virus thing has over the course of a couple days drastically changed my non-forestry job. I am a traveling pilot, I got a call today that my next contract may not be honored because of the virus. 
Hopefully in a week, or few weeks things level out and I can go back to a green light on a trailer purchase. In the mean time I will just have to be happy with looking at pictures. 
Blue skies ahead

Offline John Mc

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #58 on: March 19, 2020, 10:23:54 PM »
Yea this hole virus thing has over the course of a couple days drastically changed my non-forestry job. I am a traveling pilot, I got a call today that my next contract may not be honored because of the virus.
Hopefully in a week, or few weeks things level out and I can go back to a green light on a trailer purchase. In the mean time I will just have to be happy with looking at pictures.
Who do you fly for? My wife and I are pilots (not professionally, but I am a CFI). We leep a 172 at the Middlebury Airport.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Ludlowlad

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Re: Small scale, low impact equipment advise
« Reply #59 on: March 19, 2020, 11:19:10 PM »
Yea this hole virus thing has over the course of a couple days drastically changed my non-forestry job. I am a traveling pilot, I got a call today that my next contract may not be honored because of the virus.
Hopefully in a week, or few weeks things level out and I can go back to a green light on a trailer purchase. In the mean time I will just have to be happy with looking at pictures.
Who do you fly for? My wife and I are pilots (not professionally, but I am a CFI). We leep a 172 at the Middlebury Airport.
Most recently have been instructing out of Springfield, KVSF. In addition to instructing there I worked at the FBO and did my 30 months on the job experience to get me A&P (airframe and power plant). Currently in Oklahoma studying for the oral and practical. 
I have a job Iím Alaska that is suppose to start in a few weeks. Questionable how much business will be had because of people canceling there trips to Alaska for fishing and hunting. Also may not be able to even get there in a couple weeks depending on travel restrictions. 
We will have to see. 
Blue skies ahead !!! 
Blue skies ahead


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