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Author Topic: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter  (Read 922 times)

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Offline YellowHammer

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Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« on: March 23, 2020, 08:57:48 AM »
I've been wanting one for awhile, and my old setter seemed to do a satisfactory job, but I recently bought a WM BMT 250 dual tooth with autofeed and tooth counter.  Wow, very nice.

What I am most impressed with is its ability to show me the pre set measurement of the tooth, the over setting "push" measurement of the tooth, and then lastly, the actual spring back true set measurement of the tooth.  All three measurements on each stroke.    

I do have an odd situation with my bands being of an odd length (LT70 Wide) so that the direction of the set isn't continuous across the weld.  So the teeth set direction switches phase across the weld which means I have to make sure I don't set across the weld, or I will be bending those teeth backward.  I think I have a process for this where I set the tooth counter just a little short, then use the hand jog to do the last half a dozen teeth.  Is this what other's do?  Is there a better way?
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Offline Stephen1

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2020, 09:07:08 AM »
I have not bothered to see the set at the weld. I ussually start at the weld. . I am using LT40wide. I have not set a lot of blades as I am still learning. I tend to sharpen at least once before I run them thru the setter. If I have not destroyed the blade with hardware or some other problem. I am trying to do 10 at a time. 
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Offline Tin Horse

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2020, 12:02:02 PM »
My bands are 195". I also start at the weld and go. However I'm using the cat claw dual tooth setter which is basically manual feed. I stop when around and close to the weld because the set does change or reverse. This applies to any make of band I've tried. Not sure if this is because of band length? 
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Offline Southside

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2020, 01:00:56 PM »
Interesting - I have never paid attention to where I start, guess I need to do that.  
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2020, 08:07:58 PM »
My 195 WM blades have 223 teeth,which is not evenly divisible by 3. The interruption in the inside-raker-outside triplet sequence occurs near the weld. So, I position the blade so the inside setter is going to set the first inside tooth on the right side of the weld, so that I am sure that the setting pattern after I start it will be that existing in the blade already. I set the counter to 222 and let it go around. Then I leave the other tooth alone. I can also set the counter to 219 or 216 and finish one or two sets with the manual button if needed. 

When I have made a mistake the setting will mess up the set sequence all the way around, setting the rakers for example. This is no different from making a sequence starting mistake with a blade that has a multiple of 3 tooth count. 

Too bad the wide 70 blades dont have 222 teeth. Then you can start anywhere. But with 223 you have to start right after the interrupted sequence, and with the correct pair of teeth.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2020, 08:46:06 AM »
I got a little tired of the calibration procedure, using the manual tooth measuring device, it seems OK, but...  

So in order to get the correct amount of hesitation between the pushed value and the set value, and to check the calibration anytime, I installed the dial indicator foot negative .010" to allow for clearance (only for the first time set up), jog the setter clamps in to their max clamping against either a neutral tooth or a flat piece of steel, and place a .025" feeler gauge under the dial indicator foot.  I then set the gauge dial to .025" and I now have a quick, direct calibration.

If anybody else has another method or tip, please pass them on.  I'm just learning this machine.  
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2020, 01:38:40 PM »
Trying to understand...
...negative 0.010 from what?
....(confirm)....0.025 feeler gauge between gauge foot and a clamped tooth with no set (raker?)

DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline PAmizerman

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2020, 08:19:44 PM »
I'll be honest. I still have not completely figured the setter out. What I did last time was sharpened about 15 blades. Then put one blade in the setter and set the tooth with the manual button then  kept pulling it out of the setter and checking the set with my manual gauge until I got it right.
Then I ran all the blades through.
I have followed the calibration procedure from woodmizer but it never worked for me.
It would be nice to see a video of someone who knows what they are doing.
Calibrating and then setting with a close up of what the gauges are doing.
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Offline jeepcj779

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2020, 08:52:12 PM »
Does the LT-40/50 wide have the same issue with # of teeth not being evenly divisible by three?

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2020, 09:12:42 PM »
There is the positioning procedure of each gauge in its housing held by the Allen screw using the metal piece with the Mylar disc spacer on it, held in each vise, as described in the manual. 

But beyond that the basic idea is that one adjusts the dial gauge face to read the same set as the hand held master gauge reads for that tooth. In other words if one backed off the pushers so they are not setting the teeth one could just measure set automatically by looking at the gauge as the band goes around, and the measurement for each tooth would be the same as what one measured with the hand gauge. 

Once this is achieved, setting is a matter of advancing the pusher in so that the tooth is bent in further than it already is. As you you watch the dial the gauge goes up as the vise closes and one can see the initial set. As the pusher comes in, depending on how far it is screwed  in, the reading goes higher say from .021(initial set) to .055 ( just picking an arbitrary number), then as the pusher retracts, the dial needle falls back to say .026, the new set. That would be ideal if you want .026 set.

You need to develop a consistent procedure to get consistent  performance. Including a consistent blade/tooth height in the setter. 

Best to think about getting a set within .002-.003 for the different teeth, this would givea very smooth cut.

And very much try to not over set. I usually bacc off the pushers maybe a quarter turn before starting a new blade and try to get the set advanced to desired within a few teeth. It is better to spend a minute carefully watching with not much setting happening than to find out youre setting at .045 or worse that youve got the sequence messed up.

A light touch, consistent procedure and healthy mistrust go a long way.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2020, 09:25:02 PM »
Does the LT-40/50 wide have the same issue with # of teeth not being evenly divisible by three?
Dont know but Id keep an eye out for the possibility that blades marked the same in length might differ by one in tooth count. Never had it happen with hundreds of 158 blades for standard lt-40 but I was told by someone that the 195 blades were to have the divisible by 3 count as compared to 196, which mine dont so far. Length would need to be 194.25 to have 222 teeth with 7/8 pitch. Seems to me that could be arranged, and I think theres enough slack in the mill and it sure would be nicer.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2020, 09:25:48 PM »
Here's a video I just made.  It shows the three positions of the measurements.  You have to look quick, they are only hesitations on the sweep of the dial indicator needle, but it should be pretty easy to see, especially if you slow the video down some.  So it shows the initial tooth set, (first hesitation) generally on this band its a little less than .020".  Then it shows the pushing set distance, (second hesitation) well over .040", then it shows the actual, unloaded, ready to saw distance of about .022", or somewhere between the indicator brackets on the dial (third hesitation).    

I set the dial indicator foot negative .010" approximately, to the edge of the clamps for band clearance.

Then with a raker or flat piece of bar stock installed, I set the indicator to read 0, then I inserted a .022" feeler gauge between the raker and dial indicator and then reset the dal indicator face to read .022", which is generally where I like to set the tooth.  So I know when the tooth is set and springs back to read .022" its set correctly.

Clear as mud?

Hobby Hardwood Alabama and Woodmizer BMT Dual Tooth Automatic Setter - YouTube
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Offline PAmizerman

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2020, 11:43:21 PM »
Is there any sort of gauge for setting the height of the blade? It seems to me that would be critical?
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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #13 on: March 25, 2020, 03:15:39 AM »
The bottom of gullet of the band is referenced and adjusted to be flush with the top edge of the clamps.  So it is in nearly the same relative position every band and can be set very closely by eye.  Most times, if the setting distance isnt correct, very slightly raising or lowering the band will cause both teeth to get more, or less, set.  It only takes a stroke or two to get it right.

  



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Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2020, 08:08:21 AM »
Strange how WM never gave the blade a thought when they made the wide mills.
An inch one way in or out would have made it work out right for the blade/ setter.
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Offline WDH

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2020, 08:14:54 AM »
Interesting - I have never paid attention to where I start, guess I need to do that.  
That will help you in a lot of other areas of self improvement, too :D.
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Offline Stephen1

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2020, 08:56:30 AM »
Thanks Guys, I have struggled with the setter since the beginning. Like I said, i eat blades, so I sharpen once and then if I still have enough blades I run them thru the setter. Sometimes they came out great, other times  ::)
IDRY Vacum Kiln, LT40HDWide, BMS250 sharpener/setter 742b Bobcat, TCM forklift, Sthil 026,038, 461. 1952 TEA Fergusan Tractor

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2020, 09:01:57 AM »
Interesting - I have never paid attention to where I start, guess I need to do that.  
That will help you in a lot of other areas of self improvement, too :D.
Appreciate it Ricky..... :D
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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2020, 10:58:29 AM »
Seems like we have the answer to whether the last few teeth need to be set correctly. 😁
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2020, 06:14:16 PM »
The bottom of gullet of the band is referenced and adjusted to be flush with the top edge of the clamps.  So it is in nearly the same relative position every band and can be set very closely by eye.  Most times, if the setting distance isnt correct, very slightly raising or lowering the band will cause both teeth to get more, or less, set.  It only takes a stroke or two to get it right.

  
With the turbos the gullet is deeper. And the blade has to be lowered.
I talked to Rich in resharp. He told me about 1/8 lower
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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2020, 06:17:04 PM »
I was fiddling with setting today. 
I noticed that raising the blade up or down changes the reading of set on the gauge.
It doesn't take much to change the reading 5 or more thousands
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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2020, 08:57:40 PM »
So are you setting against the tooth tip or on the body of the tooth?  So with the Turbos, drop the band and set against the teeth tips?

I'll check about raising or lowering the blade changing measurements.  Are the dial indicator feet flat or dished?

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2020, 10:01:15 PM »
Still setting the full tooth.
With the turbo there is just more distance from the tip of the tooth to the base of the gullet. Thus the gullet being lower on the plate.

The setter feet are flat. I have the same setter you just got
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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: Woodmizer BMT 250 Setter
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2020, 05:13:06 AM »
My setter foot flat too. The height difference affecting apparent set measurement must just have to do with minor irregularity in the flatness of the band and the ability of the setter clamp to squeeze that all flat.  There shouldn't be any difference in set measurement with the band up or down a little otherwise. Admittedly all part of the setting process, getting the right set.  But the height does have to do with how much flex (over-bend) exists in the metal above the clamp and how much over-bend is needed to change the set. I think that a lower position in the clamp means less over-bend and a tighter variation (precision) in the actual set of the teeth, but I cant prove it. 
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed


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