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Author Topic: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber  (Read 1127 times)

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Offline Southside

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2020, 01:03:32 PM »
If he bails then you are ahead of the game as you didn't loose any logs or time. 
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Offline moodnacreek

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2020, 01:11:55 PM »
Everything less than 4/4 is sold as 4/4. That's the old tradition and I have always used it. But that's for 1/4" kerf [and that's me]. I'm not sure this applies to thin kerf band mills.

Offline Magicman

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2020, 01:38:50 PM »
It has nothing to do with honesty, it's about you covering your expenses.  If a customer bails because of a deposit on a special dimension order he just saved you from being stuck with an order of special dimension lumber.
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Offline Kwill

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2020, 01:52:20 PM »
It has nothing to do with honesty, it's about you covering your expenses.  If a customer bails because of a deposit on a special dimension order he just saved you from being stuck with an order of special dimension lumber.
Yes sir. I had a bad feeling about the deal anyway. Sure it would have helped me get my business off the ground had it went 100%. O well he seemed kinda pushy about it anyway and wanted a complete date which I couldn't give as it has alot to do with weather.
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Offline Kwill

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2020, 02:02:37 PM »
Everything less than 4/4 is sold as 4/4. That's the old tradition and I have always used it. But that's for 1/4" kerf [and that's me]. I'm not sure this applies to thin kerf band mills.
I'm going to keep that in mind in the future when pricing orders. Thank you
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Offline SawyerTed

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2020, 04:06:13 PM »
It has nothing to do with honesty, it's about you covering your expenses.  If a customer bails because of a deposit on a special dimension order he just saved you from being stuck with an order of special dimension lumber.
A business relationship depends upon honesty of both parties.  A deposit on a custom order goes a long way to ensuring both parties are honest.
If you havenít dealt with scammers, I am thankful.  Unfortunately, I have and I know there are people out there that get some sort of satisfaction in placing orders for which they have no intentions paying.  Anybody that feels compelled to tell me how honest they are is suspicious in my experience.  
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Offline Brucer

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2020, 12:08:04 AM »
In Canada the National Lumber Grade Authority sets the standards for lumber calculations. The US National Grading Rule Committee has similar standards -- the two countries co-ordinate their standards. Under these rules, for lumber 1" thick and less a "board foot" is calculated by multiplying the length and nominal width (measured in feet). This is the technical version of what everyone else has already said :D.

I used to tell my customers that I calculated "board feet" according to the national standard and I told them how it was done for lumber less than 1". But ... there was always somebody who wanted to dispute it after the wood was cut :(. I eventually solved that problem by quoting a price per linear foot.

I never asked for a deposit until the job price came out over $2000. From there up to $5000 it was 1/3 up front, 1/3 after half the order was done, and the balance on completion. I always explained that I needed a certain amount of money up front to maintain cash flow.

Don't forget, trust (and distrust) can work both ways. A new customer may be just as uncertain about your trustworthiness as you are about his/hers. If you can't give a reasonable idea of delivery date, the customer has more reason to be unsure about you. I kept track of my average weekly output and I could give a ball park estimate of delivery time. I would keep track of my progress and update the customer if I was getting behind.
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Offline Log Jammer

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2020, 12:28:58 AM »
What if you offered to supply part of the order and he pay as you go?

Offline barbender

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2020, 12:47:26 AM »
Yeah, I'd be leery of a large dollar amount order of oddball size. My mill will cut thinner than one inch, but that's as thin as the bill goes. You could price it as square foot or linear foot when less than 1", in case someone tries to whine. I have sawn custom orders of thin cedar before without upfront payment, but I knew the customer and it was only about $500. Also, I'm with the others- don't have your friend resaw the cants. That's like giving away the gravy and eating plain potatoes yourself. Cedar is light, saw a cant and set it to the side. Saw out another, put the other one back on the mill, and saw them into 1/2". You'll be amazed at the lumber flying off of that manual mill👍👍
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Cedarman

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2020, 07:50:47 AM »
Been doing this for 32 years.  Always get a deposit for anything unusual.  1/3 to 1/2, sometimes customer pays full amount. (I hate that because when they come to get their lumber I feel I am giving it away).  For 1/2" I am at 2/3 of 1" price. Gives me a competitive pricing edge.  We make cants and run through resaw.  We can make 8 boards per minute. We have a production edge over mills without a resaw.
I also ask customer if they can use some shorts.  Usually they can use 10 to 20%.  Cedar is notorious for having bad places in middle of log.  Also charge 15 cent per square foot premium for lengths longer than 8'.
Can not remember when a customer has not made the down payment when asked.  
What will be done with all the jacket boards that come off the sides when making cants? That needs to be figured in any custom sawing job.
Also ask customer if they can use any boards narrower than requested width.
Also ask if boards only need to be good one face.
I want to get a good handle on what is acceptable to the customer.  I may put an extra charge on if I feel the specs are tighter than for normal orders.
If the customer wants to come by and pick up part of the order, make sure to get deposit on rest of the order.
Your customer can come by and see if you are legit.  You have no way of knowing if they are legit.  Make sure the monkey is on their back.  Tell them you cannot afford to get a bad reputation if they ask about trusting you.
If they balk at giving deposit, don't even think of not getting at least 1/2.  Then thank your lucky stars if they refuse.
For custom sawing someone else's logs, makes sense to figure everything at 1" if less than 1"
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline Kwill

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2020, 11:55:23 PM »
Been doing this for 32 years.  Always get a deposit for anything unusual.  1/3 to 1/2, sometimes customer pays full amount. (I hate that because when they come to get their lumber I feel I am giving it away).  For 1/2" I am at 2/3 of 1" price. Gives me a competitive pricing edge.  We make cants and run through resaw.  We can make 8 boards per minute. We have a production edge over mills without a resaw.
I also ask customer if they can use some shorts.  Usually they can use 10 to 20%.  Cedar is notorious for having bad places in middle of log.  Also charge 15 cent per square foot premium for lengths longer than 8'.
Can not remember when a customer has not made the down payment when asked.  
What will be done with all the jacket boards that come off the sides when making cants? That needs to be figured in any custom sawing job.
Also ask customer if they can use any boards narrower than requested width.
Also ask if boards only need to be good one face.
I want to get a good handle on what is acceptable to the customer.  I may put an extra charge on if I feel the specs are tighter than for normal orders.
If the customer wants to come by and pick up part of the order, make sure to get deposit on rest of the order.
Your customer can come by and see if you are legit.  You have no way of knowing if they are legit.  Make sure the monkey is on their back.  Tell them you cannot afford to get a bad reputation if they ask about trusting you.
If they balk at giving deposit, don't even think of not getting at least 1/2.  Then thank your lucky stars if they refuse.
For custom sawing someone else's logs, makes sense to figure everything at 1" if less than 1"
These was my logs . This was over 2000.00 order. I told him I would need a deposit and he offered 200.00. I told him i would need 1/2 upfront and I never heard back from him. I priced it to cheap anyway. So no loss really. Guy must not have been to serious about it. He was like 3 hours from me but he was more than welcome to come down and look my site over and look at the trees. 
Built my own hydraulic splitter
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2020, 06:45:46 AM »
My price would have been $1.00 per square foot for 1/2", plus $.10 for all same width, plus $.15 for over 8'.
$1.25 per square foot.  $6.25 per board  $4375.00 plus 7% sales tax unless he was tax exempt. I think my figuring is correct.
He was getting a nice bargain.
There is a pretty good market for fencing pickets and 4x4x8' posts in the St. Louis area.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline btulloh

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2020, 08:56:05 AM »
Happy birthday Will!  That's a good lookin' muffin.
HM126

Offline Kwill

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Re: A few questions about a big order of cedar lumber
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2020, 12:05:28 PM »
My price would have been $1.00 per square foot for 1/2", plus $.10 for all same width, plus $.15 for over 8'.
$1.25 per square foot.  $6.25 per board  $4375.00 plus 7% sales tax unless he was tax exempt. I think my figuring is correct.
He was getting a nice bargain.
There is a pretty good market for fencing pickets and 4x4x8' posts in the St. Louis area.
I had it priced at 1.20 so I wasnt to far off. Was just off with the bd ft😁. I will keep the st louis deal in mind. I'm not that far from there.
Built my own hydraulic splitter
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Built my own log arch
built my own bandsaw sawmill
Built my own atv log arch.
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