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Author Topic: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.  (Read 4179 times)

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Offline Evanguy

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2020, 09:41:14 PM »
^^ I was thinking about doing that..then using the drain plug to put a petcock on and use a gravity system, if i wasnt going to make a coolant system on it. I may go that route still.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2020, 09:58:42 PM »
if you want to cut fast you need the taller tooth and the bigger the wood the higher tooth makes a bigger difference. if your cutting small wood 3/8 chain will cut fast on the 125, I would not put it on the 250
I'm no longer running 3/8 on the 125.
Both the 250 and 125 are setup with .404.
Biggest wood I'll cut will be 22" pine in Kaslo B.C and 22" dug fir in Squamish.
They got a 140cc hotsaw class and open hotsaw class in Squamish where I can run both saws.
The 125 will run 12T .404 and the 250 will run 14T .404 but possibly 16T if I get the power I'm expecting it should put out.
I'll  be keeping a look out for some 46RST but this 50AL chain I have is nice .050 .404 chain on both saws.
Lots of room for race chain mods with that big chassis.


 

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #22 on: April 16, 2020, 10:33:05 PM »
Thanks for making this thread, it got me re-excited about my build and I've since found all my parts and got back into it (sorry if im out of line talking about my build in your thread and posting pics, do let me know if i shouldn't be)

that's an interesting idea about cutting the case, then tipping the motor back and reversing the direction, saving on both wright and over all size. also getting the exhaust out of the way of the bar/cut zone. your building technique is quite a bit advanced then mine. i like it.

the 84 exhaust port sure is big but i haven't found an the issue with it, the one time i did have an issue is on my first rebuild i did on the bike i didn't have the FSM and the exhaust port has a bulletin about how to chanfer the exhaust port to not catch rings on it. interestingly i have cylinder jugs that has the recall done on them and also one that haven't (pics attached)

going 3mm over was fun for sure but lead to a load of headaches with pushing coolant before i realized why, i copper sheet would have been the simplest i was young at the time and didn't think about that. i ended up cutting an o-ring grove around the combustion chamber then using gasket maker to seal the coolant part. i do like the 7 stud design, lots of clamping force evenly spread.

i wasnt sure what i was going to do with the coolant, that's a good idea really. i see I'm going to learn a lot from this thread.

i had no idea about the chain and have never even looked into what i needed, i assumed id be running the same type of 404 chain that's on my stihl 084

i wonder if an 83 head would bolt on the 84 bottom since i'm not using the ATAC system, i guess i can just buy a cheap base gasket and that will let me know, or if you ever are feeling board maybe you can grab the measurements on the 4 base studs


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Evanguy you can post pictures  all you want.
Your '84 is a good motor like the newer '85 '86. The only thing it shares with my '83 is the head.
Only reason I went '83 CR250R is it has the PTO on the left side just like my '82 YZ125.  So I can build then both the same .
When I finish the 125 I'll be ready to do a good job on the 250.
With these saws they have:
•Excellent lower center of gravity.
•Can cut from both sides of the log 
•Excellent view of the log and b/c.
•Left hand is not up high holding saw.
•Fuel tank is not over the exhaust pipe
•Ignition coil, oil tank and fuel lines covered up out of the way under one cover.
•These saws oilers are pressurized with a valve connected to the throttle to squirt oil at 3/4 throttle.
I had that oiler setup on the YZ125 for over 36 years.

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #23 on: April 16, 2020, 11:07:26 PM »
Evanguy,
Here's a picture I drew up last year of my '83 base stud spacing and crank.
I was trying to see if a newer CR250 cylinder and crank would fit. 
They don't. 


 
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Offline ehp

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2020, 06:47:37 AM »
in 22 inch wood without high tooth I donot care how much power you have you will not be even close , one thing you need to think about is your port timing , motor is shut off and you start it on go , if your porting is to high the motor will not spool up in time so the race is already over before you even touch the wood , . Having lots of power for the 3rd cut is way to late

Offline ehp

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2020, 06:51:26 AM »
Oregon harvester chain the new stuff is far better than the chain you have as far as cutting speed goes, the tooth is taller , yes its .063 gauge but your chain is .058 gauge up at the top so only .005 bigger plus the .063 is far stronger

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2020, 08:19:01 AM »
in 22 inch wood without high tooth I donot care how much power you have you will not be even close , one thing you need to think about is your port timing , motor is shut off and you start it on go , if your porting is to high the motor will not spool up in time so the race is already over before you even touch the wood , . Having lots of power for the 3rd cut is way to late
All good advice Ed, but even though my YZ125 has the exhaust at 202° it's still a hyper quick 50mm stroke 125cc engine. It's VForce 3 reed cage and TRX style custom drag pipe will have her at WOT into the first cut.
My CR250R port timing will be at 190°/129° also with a VF3 reed cage and drag pipe.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2020, 08:31:48 AM »
Oregon harvester chain the new stuff is far better than the chain you have as far as cutting speed goes, the tooth is taller , yes its .063 gauge but your chain is .058 gauge up at the top so only .005 bigger plus the .063 is far stronger
Are you sure that harvester chain isn't. 080 gauge?
I don't think there's enough sideplate on a semi chisel harvester chain to make it into a proper square chisel.
Matter of fact I see some shows are banning harvester chain because of it's high chain shot forces going through safety shields.
The 46RST HT is not such a big deal, guys like Mel Lentz complain it stretches bad, weak and depth gauges too low. 
I'm not shy to put 40 hours into my 50AL race chain. With the matched sprocket gearing for the competition's diameter of log, I'll have it under control.  :)
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline ehp

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2020, 12:12:05 PM »
there is different depth gauges setting on high tooth, All your fast times are cut using high tooth or 1/2 inch . the chain fills under the cutter and once the tooth is full it cuts no more wood , Believe me we tested a lot and high tooth on 3 cuts in 20 inch is over a second faster and closer to 2 seconds. I have some taller tooth .063 Oregon here we tried from harvester . Its ok up to about 12 inch wood , anything bigger the higher tooth takes over . You geared down pretty good to , A stock 250 will scream a 16 tooth gear using high tooth chain . High tooth is stock stihl chain with just a taller tooth , some guys pull the tooth off and use .080 gauge setup and the harvest chain is chisel not semi , It pays to know people lol, I spent lots of time in Oregon plant here on making my own high tooth chain . Only problem was the plant was booked for at least 2 but more likely 3 years making chain

Offline ehp

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #29 on: April 17, 2020, 12:18:19 PM »
well then you should know , the bigger the diameter of log the higher number of tooth the gear needs to be so the cutter cuts the full way across the block . If your cutter gets full it stakes the rest of the way across the block and starts bouncing in the cut . The chain your using we played lots with and went as high as 24 tooth gear on a rotax and after 20 tooth it made zero difference as was still a lot slower than high tooth setup running a 16 or 17 tooth setup

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #30 on: April 17, 2020, 04:41:39 PM »
Ed, yeah I missed out on the Stihl HT chain. Could have easily bought some loops a few years ago from J.S.B. Called him last fall and he said their gone.
Jerry Gingras set a record with the 46RST. 404 years back beating his 1/2 inch times.
The chain has been around for almost 20 years now. Hopefully the rumor it'll be replaced with a newer version...as long as there still is a Stihl Timbersports.

I was in the Guelph plant on a tour back in the early 1980's. Lots of history in that place.
It used to be Planer Chain Ltd Guelph, Ontario Canada.
Oregon bought Planer out in 1952.
1957 the company changed its name to Omark Industries but still keeping the Oregon brand name.

Here's some pics of the Stihl 46RST high tooth.


 

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #31 on: April 17, 2020, 04:42:52 PM »
Most harvester chain is 404.  80 Stihl make 2 versions. 1 is stronger. Oregon 18 or 19 x

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #32 on: April 17, 2020, 04:53:27 PM »
Most harvester chain is 404.  80 Stihl make 2 versions. 1 is stronger. Oregon 18 or 19 x
The last .063 harvester chain I ran on my Stihl 090-60" was the older Stihl chain . I thought everything went .080 every since.
I got a 12T .404  NOS Sandvik .063 harvester sprocket to run on my YZ125 and ordered a 14 also. The hub adapter is getting made at the moment. 


 

 

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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #33 on: April 17, 2020, 05:22:37 PM »
To swing those bikesaws this equipment is very important.
I'm 62 and still using them everyday for over 40 years now :)
This is my gym in my laundry room. 


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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #34 on: April 17, 2020, 05:26:26 PM »
Winter of 1988 running my YZ125.

Brother's Mac 101 kart saw beat me that day.
The experimental pipe's long stinger didn't work out.


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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #35 on: April 17, 2020, 05:32:28 PM »
Brother Dennis with his 101 Mac with 34mm carb, inverted pipe stinger.


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Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #36 on: April 17, 2020, 05:41:43 PM »
Also on that day Peter Holmquist Husqvarna distributor from Vancouver (originally farmed near our Saskatchewan farm) is running the first ever Husqvarna 3120XP in North America with a pipe. ;D


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2020, 10:35:20 PM »
Yes sir!! That’s right! Getting after those weights makes a difference🏋️‍♀️🏋️‍♀️💪💪

Offline ehp

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #38 on: April 18, 2020, 03:16:58 PM »
Jerry set a lot of records but if your talking about the 20 inch Boonville record I think was in 2017 , maybe a different year than that but I seem to know that chain very well he ran ;D, Dave won 2018 Boonville with a stock bore stock stroke  cr 250 from here . Just like everything else as time goes on things get faster

Offline HolmenTree

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Re: HolmenTree bikesaw projects.
« Reply #39 on: April 18, 2020, 04:26:22 PM »
Jerry set a lot of records but if your talking about the 20 inch Boonville record I think was in 2017 , maybe a different year than that but I seem to know that chain very well he ran ;D, Dave won 2018 Boonville with a stock bore stock stroke  cr 250 from here . Just like everything else as time goes on things get faster
Yes it was the 20" Boonville record. There was discussion about it a few months ago on another forum talking about the high tooth chain.

Yeah those short stroke CR250 honda are pretty impressive. With my CR250 build I'm going into a whole new uncharted territory.
My '83 has the same basic bore/stroke and porting as the newer ones with non PV TRX design cylinder and CR500 style head.
A guy posted  his bikes dyno  sheet for his 1986 68mm x 72mm short rod  CR250 making 261cc.
Max power 57.05 at 7,460 rpm
Max torque  40.49 at 7,300
at the rear wheel!

It's going to be later this summer when I get the Honda in the wood, got to get the Yamaha done first so I know what to do with the Honda.
I definitely will find some .404 high tooth chain, I may have to pay a king's ransom for it though.
And definitely will run a 16T gear on it.
I thankyou for your usual good advice Ed. Hopefully I can get my tree service season started up this year to help pay for these extra custom parts.
Are you doing any logging?
They do need toilet paper and masks!!
Making a living with a saw since age 16.


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