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Author Topic: CS-590 will not idle  (Read 3055 times)

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Offline Air Lad

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #80 on: June 19, 2020, 03:19:04 AM »
Echo emailed back:

"Thank you for taking the time to email ECHO Incorporated! Due to COVID-19 prevention measures taken by ECHO, we are temporarily reducing our business operations. We apologize for the delay in answering to your email. Thank you for your patience during this time.
 
My apologies on the performance of the dealer. Unfortunately, Echo does not do returns, as we do not sell directly. Nevertheless, please attach a copy of the receipt. There are two options, you can take the unit back to that dealer, and I can forward the case to the servicing manager in that area, or you can take the unit to a different dealer for a second warranty opinion.
 
 
If you have any other questions, please update this incident and we will be happy to assist you. Our representatives are available Monday through Friday 8:00 AM to 4:30 PM (CST).
 
 Sincerely,
 Natalie
 ECHO Customer Support Department
"

I will have to find a second dealer with a service department.  Not looking forward to that.
Well it's something I suppose. The first option could work if the area manager hears your side. My experience with the area managers (non related products) have been positive as a result of displaying 1. honesty 2. non confrontational dialogue. and 3. a genuine inidication of foward use and support of the brand. They want repeat customers , every successful buisness does. My $00.02 worth 

Offline Ianab

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #81 on: June 19, 2020, 04:15:24 AM »
Yeah, it's considerably better than "get bent"  ;)

"Get a 2nd opinion", or "Escalate it to someone higher up the chain" at least opens up some options to resolve things. 

Like Air lad says, explore those options in a non-confrontational way, especially if you go with the other dealer. They didn't sell the problem, but they might be able to fix it for you if you come across as the reasonable type.  
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline Dave41A

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #82 on: July 01, 2020, 08:50:41 PM »
Just as an update for anyone still following this or perhaps reading it in the future, I took it to a 2nd dealer today.  This dealer was very different from the first.  The first was in an urban setting and mostly sold lawnmowers and weed-wackers.  This other one was out in the country--a sideline of a dairy operation and also fixed tractors.  Inside I met a man who could have been Wilford Brimley's twin brother.  After talking to him, he took me back through the shop--past a lathe and a couple of mills, a tractor split in half, and probably half a dozen snowmobiles and ATV's in various states of disassembly to meet 'Mike," who was the chainsaw guy.  Mike was out mowing but stopped that and came in to see me.  We talked, and I told him the "bad gas" story.  He shook his head and said "That's mostly used as an excuse not to work on things.  Even if you mixed 60:1 you'd have to run a long time on the wrong mix to cause damage.  If it's scored by the exhaust port, that's usually caused by heat, which means it's running too lean.  With the impulse line off, it likely sucked air in the crankcase and made it run lean & hot."  He told me that Echo was pretty good to them on warranty issues, but that he would still have to check with them to see what they wanted to do, which could be anything from a top-end rebuild (piston & cylinder) to a complete re-engine, to a whole new saw. 

So, I do not have a running saw yet, but at least have it in the hands of someone I am confident in.  It will be a couple of days yet before I find out, but at this point, even if he told me it wasn't covered, I would still be happy as at least I had a chance to talk to a mechanic who gave me a straight line and not someone blowing smoke.

Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #83 on: July 02, 2020, 07:19:14 AM »
Yeah, well you knew that original 'mechanic' was blowing smoke. Try to stay with dealers that really work on saws and not just warranty replace them. They know the in & outs and the issues from factory.

Sounds like you're headed in the right direction now and it's up to Echo.

Kevin

Offline kenskip1

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #84 on: July 18, 2020, 11:41:57 AM »
Dave,Have you heard anything from Echo regarding your saw? I am hoping that they would repair or replace the saw. Ken
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Offline Dave41A

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #85 on: July 29, 2020, 04:49:28 PM »
Dave,Have you heard anything from Echo regarding your saw? I am hoping that they would repair or replace the saw. Ken
Thanks for the patience.  I called the dealer/repair place back, and they updated me on what is going on.  They checked compression, impulse, and crankcase vacuum, and all three check out properly per ECHO specs.  I spoke directly with the mechanic, and he said compression was at 160 psi.  The minimum allowed is 125.  He said he spoke with an ECHO service rep who said the apparent scoring on the piston was due to "carbon," and that as long as the saw otherwise checked out, then it was O.K. as it was (I'll be honest--this part surprised me).
However, the mechanic also had the same "idle for 7-10 seconds, then stall" problem I have.  He checked out the carburetor and everything looked fine.  His thinking is that the carburetor diaphragm is too stiff, and that the saw is not getting enough gas at idle to keep itself running.  I am not so sure about this, as I had just put a new Walbro OEM carb kit in it, but he is a more experienced mechanic than I.  Everything else about the carburetor checked out--needle & Hi/Lo settings--so I guess I re-built it properly.
He said his next step after a new carb kit came in would be to check if that fixed things.  If not, the next step would be to swap out entire carburetors with another known, working saw and see of that made a difference.  I'm not a fan of "R&R mechanics" (remove & replace parts until the thing starts working again), but apparently there are not many alternatives here.
So the good news is they are still working on it.  The bad news is...they are still working on it.  But at least they are not pushing it back at me and saying "bad gas."  So I'll take a little trial-and-error repair work if it means a working saw.  At least with both an experienced mechanic and ECHO both stumped, I don't feel so bad about not figuring it out!
For what it's worth, I would be surprised if an engine with that level of scoring would run properly.  A 4-stroke with that kind of damage would need a cylinder re-hone & re-ring at a minimum, and the "carbon" explanation sounds like "bad gas's" first cousin.  My guess is the compression test is a "false positive," and that blow-by or some other factor is ruining impulse at idle.  But, it's not my call.  The mechanic did not say for certain, but I am thinking that by now, ECHO should be footing the bill for the repair.  But I won't know until I get the saw back.
Thanks for the continued interest. Hopefully this has a happy ending.
Dave

Offline kenskip1

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #86 on: August 18, 2020, 06:09:54 PM »
Dave,Well it has now been a month.Have you herd anything from Echo? I would have thought that they would have been in contact with you buy now.I don't have the patients that you have.Anyway just checking in. Hopefully this will have a  good outcome.However it appears as if you are now placed on the dreaded "back burner".Keep us posted, Ken
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Offline Dave41A

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2020, 01:03:29 PM »
Dave,Well it has now been a month.Have you herd anything from Echo? I would have thought that they would have been in contact with you buy now.I don't have the patients that you have.Anyway just checking in. Hopefully this will have a  good outcome.However it appears as if you are now placed on the dreaded "back burner".Keep us posted, Ken
I called back today, and the mechanic is still working on it.  He says there is something weird with the carburetor which is causing the saw to run beautifully, then die after a few seconds.  Adjustments of the needle made no effect--and he cannot figure out what it is.
Apparently the saw is not registered with Echo.  I am pretty sure I did this when I bought it, but it is possible that I did not.  I still have the receipt and provided that to the mechanic to allow him to hopefully process this as a warranty claim.  Yes, it did seem like I ended up on the back burner, but that is at least an improvement over the treatment I had before!  Thanks for the continued interest.  Dave

Offline Dave41A

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #88 on: August 28, 2020, 09:34:33 AM »
Dave,Well it has now been a month.Have you herd anything from Echo? I would have thought that they would have been in contact with you buy now.I don't have the patients that you have.Anyway just checking in. Hopefully this will have a  good outcome.However it appears as if you are now placed on the dreaded "back burner".Keep us posted, Ken
I called back today, and the mechanic is still working on it.  He says there is something weird with the carburetor which is causing the saw to run beautifully, then die after a few seconds.  Adjustments of the needle made no effect--and he cannot figure out what it is.
Apparently the saw is not registered with Echo.  I am pretty sure I did this when I bought it, but it is possible that I did not.  I still have the receipt and provided that to the mechanic to allow him to hopefully process this as a warranty claim.  Yes, it did seem like I ended up on the back burner, but that is at least an improvement over the treatment I had before!  Thanks for the continued interest.  Dave
So....the update that a few people have been waiting for.  The mechanic called back today, having got through to ECHO.  The story is apparently there is some internal diaphragm inside the carburetor that is out of place, resulting in the saw not running properly.  This internal diaphragm in non-repairable, so the saw needs a new carburetor.  The price tag is $100.  NOT covered by warranty as it is not a "manufacturing defect." I told him I would call him back.  
The carburetor is a WALBRO HDA-268A.  That price seems like a fair price for that part.  However, I am not 100% convinced that is really the problem.  I do trust this mechanic more than the "bad gas" guys, but don't want to spend $100 to then be told "Ooops, guess that wasn't it."
Any insight as to how to proceed?  Thanks for the continued interest over the past months.  Dave

Offline Dave41A

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #89 on: August 28, 2020, 09:50:58 AM »
Dave,Well it has now been a month.Have you herd anything from Echo? I would have thought that they would have been in contact with you buy now.I don't have the patients that you have.Anyway just checking in. Hopefully this will have a  good outcome.However it appears as if you are now placed on the dreaded "back burner".Keep us posted, Ken
I called back today, and the mechanic is still working on it.  He says there is something weird with the carburetor which is causing the saw to run beautifully, then die after a few seconds.  Adjustments of the needle made no effect--and he cannot figure out what it is.
Apparently the saw is not registered with Echo.  I am pretty sure I did this when I bought it, but it is possible that I did not.  I still have the receipt and provided that to the mechanic to allow him to hopefully process this as a warranty claim.  Yes, it did seem like I ended up on the back burner, but that is at least an improvement over the treatment I had before!  Thanks for the continued interest.  Dave
So....the update that a few people have been waiting for.  The mechanic called back today, having got through to ECHO.  The story is apparently there is some internal diaphragm inside the carburetor that is out of place, resulting in the saw not running properly.  This internal diaphragm in non-repairable, so the saw needs a new carburetor.  The price tag is $100.  NOT covered by warranty as it is not a "manufacturing defect." I told him I would call him back.  
The carburetor is a WALBRO HDA-268A.  That price seems like a fair price for that part.  However, I am not 100% convinced that is really the problem.  I do trust this mechanic more than the "bad gas" guys, but don't want to spend $100 to then be told "Ooops, guess that wasn't it."
Any insight as to how to proceed?  Thanks for the continued interest over the past months.  Dave
Also:  I found this discussion at another website, and thought it sounded familiar (advice on tuning carburetor):
"
....get it started on 3/4, then adjust idle speed throttle screw for steady idle.
then adjust your high speed as needed.

if it is stalling out after 10 to 20 seconds while idling, sounds like a bad check valve. these may or may not be replaceable, do not know for sure."

I am guessing this check valve is somewhere in the fuel supply circuit.  Just adding this in case anyone has some additional insight.  Thanks again, Dave

Online Iwawoodwork

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #90 on: August 28, 2020, 11:58:12 AM »
Did the mechanic try the carb exchange with a known working carb?  That would show if the issue is directly related to the carb and reduce the chance that you would be spending a $100 for nothing.

Offline Dave41A

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Re: CS-590 will not idle
« Reply #91 on: August 28, 2020, 12:04:17 PM »
Did the mechanic try the carb exchange with a known working carb?  That would show if the issue is directly related to the carb and reduce the chance that you would be spending a $100 for nothing.
I had that thought.  Apparently the decision "it needs a new carb" came from the ECHO tech, over the phone.  I will ask your question the next time I speak to the mechanic.  This seems a little like a $100 gamble to me.  Dave


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