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Author Topic: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?  (Read 3254 times)

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Offline Satamax

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Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« on: June 25, 2020, 05:00:10 PM »
Hi everybody.

I could really do with the help of some kind soul.

I have bought this



The ubiquitous gearmatic 19.

I know that i will have to do some work on it.

But there is something i really want to do. Is to remote control it.

I have plenty of ideas for this. From the most common, to the wildest ones.

But there is one thing i need to know, that i don't!  

How much pressure the brake and clutch cylinders can cope with?

If some good guy in the know how, could tell me. That would be wonderful.

That way, i will be able to flog my X710C master control on fleabay or else.

Thanks a lot guys.

French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 05:10:24 AM »
Guys. Another question.

On Pdhx20's pic below.

Is the brake's band top mount fixed? Or the bottom one, may be?

Thanks guys.

French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 08:56:29 AM »
 

 

 The small band is fixed to the inner band at the top, the lower connection goes to the control rod. The large band is fixed at the top.
Ed K

Offline Gary Davis

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 11:37:34 AM »
the brake band is the one on the outside and it is released to free spool, the ones on the inside are the clutches they rotate constantly then when they are engaged it turns the drum and pull the cable in I have a pic of the controller in my galley , the pressure is about the same as the old hydrolic brakes on a car 

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2020, 09:42:40 AM »

(Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
 

 The small band is fixed to the inner band at the top, the lower connection goes to the control rod. The large band is fixed at the top.
Ok, with the  drawing from the manual, i get it. Vaguely. 
 
I wonder, why two bands? I get that the small one pulls on the big one. I wonder also about 15 and 16 "rods" They're pinned in the center, Are these levering, from say, the housing? This all seems overly complicated no? I feel like there should be a spring somewhere to tighten the brake, as this seems a "release" mechanism? With the actuating rod, placed where it is. It could be easily replaced with a small hydraulic cylinder (i keep wanting to use 'ram' instead)  
the brake band is the one on the outside and it is released to free spool, the ones on the inside are the clutches they rotate constantly then when they are engaged it turns the drum and pull the cable in I have a pic of the controller in my galley , the pressure is about the same as the old hydrolic brakes on a car


Garry Davis, thanks a lot. i have the manual, and i had sussed that the outer bands were the brake :D But not how these work. You're saying that 30 bars should be a safe pressure to work with? I have a "frozen" x710c. But i would rather avoid using it. Hydraulics are way cleverer in my idea. I went to see your gallery. That winch is well rusted! 
Thanks again guys. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2020, 10:14:32 AM »
Ok, i understand a bit better. Those "rods" or levers, are tucked into the winch casing, and act as travel dividers or multipliers. 

Lever 16 is pushed in it's "center" by the brake rod. So it's end travels a bit more.  Thought, reducing the force. 

Lever 15 is pulled by the thin band, at it's end, so that travels a bit more, and the "center" less. But that's applying more force on the wide band. I guess, that's the one which gets stuck all the time. 

I'm thinking, ditch all this, and replace by one of those. 

http://www.ic-direct.co.uk/pages/Products/hyd_cylinders.htm

I can have over a thousand pound with the tiniest one, at 150 bar. 

 

 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 08:59:13 AM »
 Here's some picts of my manual it's an older winch than what your showing.
Ed K

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2020, 09:33:52 AM »
 Had trouble will try again.


 


 


 


 
#11 is the spring you refer to,it puts pressure on the band to hold cable. #3 is where you could put a piston to release the pressure to get cable to free spool.
Ed K

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2020, 12:05:25 PM »
Ed, sorry but i can't see a single number. Which manual is this? 8, 9? 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2020, 12:44:05 PM »
Ed, you mean spring #22? 

French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2020, 04:46:40 PM »
I am asking myself, do i mod the brakes as hydraulic open? Or hydraulic close? 

Anybody has a theory about the two brake bands? 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2020, 07:21:22 PM »
the smaller one probably helps  tightens the bigger one , you will probably need to get your controller working to make it work right its probably not froze just need pulled apart and cleaned

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2020, 02:48:59 AM »
the smaller one probably helps  tightens the bigger one , you will probably need to get your controller working to make it work right its probably not froze just need pulled apart and cleaned
Thanks a lot Gary Davis. 
The small band pulls on the big one via a lever.  The thing is, i wonder why. I might have an idea, it's made like this, so the freespool is still rubbing a tad. So the drum doesn't empty itself on the lightest of pull. But i can't confirm this. 
If i can, i would rather avoid using the master control. I really want to remote control the winch. And since those gearmatic winches are often troublesome, i thought modding one could be a clever idea. Often it's the brake being stuck after resting. And the brake rests closed. That gives me the idea, that positive action for braking should be used. When the winch is not in use, the brake is open.  
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2020, 12:13:35 PM »
 The only thing the master controller does is to take the pressure of the bands so it free wheels. There's a set screw in the main housing above the large brake band that you adjust to keep from birdnesting.
 Yes 22 is the spring that pushes the band closed. #3 is where you would put a small piston to release the tension.
Ed K

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2020, 04:14:56 PM »
Thanks a lot Ed K. 

Really, i think i will modify it. Big band for braking, small band for avoiding bird nesting. Or something along those lines. 

How much can i gather, if i was to put the x710c onto fleabay do you think? 

I was checking the price of electro hydraulic distributors. Prices are dear! 

Thanks a lot for the help. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 04:49:52 PM »
 Look up(www.surplus supply.com/hydraulics) I went thru their catalog but I'm not smart enough to figure out what components go together to make up what you need.
Ed K

Offline Satamax

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 10:08:56 PM »
Thanks a lot Ed. Well, i might already have some of what i need. I need to scrape paint! To identify what it is. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline 62oliver

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2020, 08:24:47 AM »
I just think of the small bands as providing leverage to the big bands to apply enough force to either winch in, or brake. The force created by the hand operated remote controller or the brake spring (#22) simply activates the lever using the winchs' own rotational force.

The set screw on top of the housing that Ed mentions should have a small spring under it, which pushes on the brake band creating a slight drag on the drum (adjustable) to prevent bird nesting.  
Husqvarna 266, Case 90xt, JD310C, TJ240E, 02 Duramax

Offline 62oliver

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2020, 08:31:31 AM »
Lots of people seem to dislike the Gearmatic winch, and I understand why. When I got mine it was not working, I replaced what needed replacing and it has worked very well for me, as a hobby machine.
Just going by what I've read on this forum over the last few years and what I saw with my own winch, I think the first thing I would modify on it is adding a "live swivel".
Guys on here have done it, I have not, but if I ever start leaking brake fluid in there I think I will do that.

**I am not a Gearmatic specialist
Husqvarna 266, Case 90xt, JD310C, TJ240E, 02 Duramax

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Gearmatic specialists, hydraulics?
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2020, 08:47:22 AM »
 Oliver, in reply #1 see how Satamax's winch has the swivel, and on #2 mine has the pipe sticking out? I retapped to 1/4 npt put the pipe in then drilled a hole in the cover for the pipe to stick out. That way I could use a swivel that cost around $70. compared to $325. :o.
Ed K


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