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Author Topic: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?  (Read 496 times)

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Offline Treeflea24

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Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« on: June 26, 2020, 02:35:42 PM »
Im clearing honeysuckle. After cutting (walk through with chainsaw and/or loppers) I paint the stump in 20% glyphosate, applying the herbicide within minutes of cutting.
In some locations, depending on what Im trying to do, I like to come in afterwards with a mower or brush hog, potentially knocking the tops off of the already cut honeysuckle.
My question is:
Approximately how long does the herbicide take to do its job after it has been applied? I want to avoid recutting the stump tops before the herbicide has been fully absorbed.


One other interesting observation - Im also cutting grape vines with the same method. Its been dry recently, and I noticed that when I painted the cut surface of these vines the herbicide would not pool up on the cut surface - it was wicked into the vine, usually in a matter of seconds. Im pretty sure I was painting the 'bottom' half of the vine. Ive also seen the opposite at different times of year when the cut surface bleeds fluid out. Just an observation.

Offline BradMarks

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2020, 02:50:36 PM »
I am not a chemical expert at all.  Glyphosate is Roundup by another name, a forb and grass killer. It kills my weeds. (for a while!) It is not an effective brush agent, may knock it back some, but kill it?  Honeysuckle may be more vulnerable to chemicals, but I know blackberries laugh at glyphosate. 

Offline John Mc

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2020, 07:06:02 PM »
I am not a chemical expert at all.  Glyphosate is Roundup by another name, a forb and grass killer. It kills my weeds. (for a while!) It is not an effective brush agent, may knock it back some, but kill it?  Honeysuckle may be more vulnerable to chemicals, but I know blackberries laugh at glyphosate.
Glyphosate is a very commonly used brush agent. I used it in cut stump applications all the time (mostly buckthorn). You need significantly higher concentrations than you would use for a foliar spray application. When I tried to use my local hardware store "concentrated" RoundUp - about 18%, I found it only somewhat effective. Bumping up to the 25% to 33% range, it was very effective. It does work much better if you avoid doing cut stump treatments during the "spring flush" - in that time, it almost seems to spit the Glyphosate back out.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Online btulloh

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2020, 08:25:01 PM »
Most farm type outlets sell 41% glyphosate concentrate and usually have much better pricing. 2.5 gallon size is the best value especially if you use a fair amount. No problem keeping it a couple years. Iíve seen no degrade. 

The higher the concentrate the better if your trying to do cut stump on woody material. As always read and follow directions for mixing to correct strength for general use. Nothing to be gained from using a higher concentrate than indicated. 

That said, it may work fine, but something with triclopyr is much better suited for most woody type vines and such.  In either case time of year, and immediate application are both important, as mentioned above. Not sure about the official time to let it work, but two weeks minimum would be my thought. After that it should be into the roots and you can do what you want to the stems. It may be quicker or slower, but two weeks has always worked for me. 

Good luck with your clearing. It seems no matter what, something will come in to replace it. The process never seems to be final for me.

Offline clearcut

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2020, 12:44:04 AM »
That is the procedure recommended on the label, or at least it was. Monsanto claims 6-24 hours for RoundUp to be "rain-ready" I believe.  Glyphosate often takes a week or more for foliage to brown.

Longer is better. Time of year may have some bearing. There are several species of honeysuckle so timing may differ. It depends on the plant, as you observed with the grape.

Search for Integrated Pest Management (IPM), and the species you are interested in controlling to get ideas on timing and methods.



Offline John Mc

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2020, 08:29:06 AM »
To your original question:

I don't have any scientific data, or even any serious, formal observations about how long it takes Glyphosate to be effective in cut stump treatements. I suspect some of it depends on the time of year: I know cut stump treatments on buckthorn are more effective in the late summer and fall, when the tree is sending energy reserves down to it's root system. I generally cut low before I apply the Glyphosate. If I come back to cut it later, It's generally not until several weeks later, or even the next year.

Most of the honeysuckle that has been treated on my property was done by a contractor (When I gave up on battling buckthorn on my own, I applied for and was awarded an EQIP cost-sharing grant through NRCS. The grant covered honeysuckle and buckthorn). It appears that all of his honeysuckle treatment was foliar spray. Foliar spray is something I tend to avoid, since it's less "targeted" than cut stump, but it was very effective. It appears that honeysuckle is much more susceptible to Glyphosate than Buckthorn is.

So I really can't help on the "how long should I wait to re-cut honeysuckle". I suspect the Glyphosate gets pulled into Honeysuckle roots more quickly than into buckthorn, but I have nothing to base that on other than my own (unfounded) suspicion.

I'll ask the guy who did my invasives treatment what he knows about this, and post here if he has anything to say.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Treeflea24

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2020, 02:03:08 PM »
Thanks everyone.

Offline Tom King

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2020, 12:11:05 PM »
Tordon comes in squeeze bottles for treating newly cut tree stumps.  I would think it might work.  It also has blue dye in it, so you can see where you put it.

Arsenal (Imprazar) will kill Honeysuckle, but you have to spray it on the foliage, and leave it.  It won't come back next year.

Offline John Mc

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2020, 10:02:00 PM »
Tordon comes in squeeze bottles for treating newly cut tree stumps.  I would think it might work.  It also has blue dye in it, so you can see where you put it.

Arsenal (Imprazar) will kill Honeysuckle, but you have to spray it on the foliage, and leave it.  It won't come back next year.
Unfortunately, those aren't really an option here in Vermont, unless you have a pesticide applicator's license.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2020, 06:27:03 AM »
Bought 2.5 gal Roundup in 1995, just using the last of it and it still kills weeds and multiflora rose.
I know of a guy that used a high concentrate on some beech and it flashed through root grafts to trees he wanted to keep.
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Offline Treeflea24

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2020, 02:31:23 AM »
I know of a guy that used a high concentrate on some beech and it flashed through root grafts to trees he wanted to keep.
Ive heard this can happen.
Do you know if the root graft  and backflash is only a concern when the neighboring trees are the same species? Were the trees that he wanted to keep also beech?
The example that I have in mind when I ask - I have a red oak that is practically surrounded by a larger multi-trunked honey locust. It almost looks like the oak grew up through the middle of the locust. Is it likely or possible that the roots of the two could be grafted, considering their such different species?

Offline John Mc

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Re: Cut Stump Glyphosate - How Long to Take Effect?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2020, 08:25:59 AM »
I know of a guy that used a high concentrate on some beech and it flashed through root grafts to trees he wanted to keep.
Ive heard this can happen.
Do you know if the root graft  and backflash is only a concern when the neighboring trees are the same species? Were the trees that he wanted to keep also beech?
The example that I have in mind when I ask - I have a red oak that is practically surrounded by a larger multi-trunked honey locust. It almost looks like the oak grew up through the middle of the locust. Is it likely or possible that the roots of the two could be grafted, considering their such different species?
It's been a while since I read up on root grafting. As I recall there were lots of hypotheses, but not a whole lot of studies. It's difficult to study, since it may involve digging up the roots to observe and verify  the grafting (though they can also use dyes, chemicals and radioactive particles to trace connections). From what I read, root grafting is much more common between trees of the same species (intraspecific root grafting) than between trees of different species (interspecific root grafting). The frequency of root grafting can also vary by soil type: trees in shallow soils over hardpan, clay, or bedrock may be more likely to root graft. Some species may be more likely to graft with other species than others.

So not a definitive answer to your question, but it would appear it's possible, though I have no idea if Honey Locust and Oak normally form root graft or not.
If you are thinking of removing the Honey Locust to release the Oak and wanted to be on the safe side, I suggest doing it mechanically, and not use chemicals on the Honey Locust.
I would also remove the honey locust gradually. Some this year, wait a few years the do some more. That oak has grown up sheltered from the wind. It will likely need to adapt its trunk and root system. The sudden change in the amount of sunlight can be a shock to the tree as well.
A bit of Topic Drift:
Back in 2005, I released a couple of White Oaks growing in the middle of a Hemlock stand: one was perhaps 10" DBH, with a smaller 6" DBH  in the first year I girdled one Hemlock that was just a few feet from the Oak, and removed another hemlock that was crowding the crown. I figured the girdled tree could continue to provide some mechanical support for a time, and killing that one plus the second would give the oak a boost. The first two years, I saw little change in the Oak. It really seemed to take off in the third year, growing into the openings created around its crown. At the end of the third year, I went back and removed two more Hemlocks that were crowding the Oak's crown.

Now, 15 years after the initial release, the Oak has grown so its crown mostly fills the opening created. It has overtopped the Hemlocks in the area, so I have no plans for further release. The trunk has increased in diameter significantly (I wish I had recorded the growth rate). While nut production varies from year to year (which is normal for Oaks), overall it seems to be producing significantly more acorns. I've been happy with the results. Despite some nasty wind storms which took down some nice Red Oaks elsewhere on the property, these white Oaks are doing fine. Since deer make use of the Hemlock stand in the winter, I was happy to support an increased food source right in the area.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow


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