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Author Topic: goose neck into logging trailer  (Read 1651 times)

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Offline Resonator

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #40 on: June 29, 2020, 12:09:52 PM »
I would suggest check with the trailer manufacturers design spec.s for load securement, they should say where you can or cannot cut or weld, mount a winch, and where to hook a strap to. Also check with a good commercial semi trailer repair / fab shop. They would know what it would take to mount winches, and most importantly to pass DOT inspection. Either way you'll need a good structural welder for that work.
X2 on the headache rack is a good idea for hauling tall stacks of logs. Also they can stop forward movement for stacks of lumber, as boards in center of a pack can slide out in a "brake check".
Under bark there's boards and beams, somewhere in between.
Cuttin' while its green, through a steady sawdust stream.
I'm chasing the sawdust dream.

Proud owner of a Wood-Mizer 2017 LT28G19

Online alan gage

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #41 on: June 29, 2020, 12:32:24 PM »
I've always meant to build something better but what I have keeps working so I keep using it. Part of the reason is that I don't haul logs very often and my trailer is only rated at 14k so they're generally not piled very deep. And I'm usually picking up good sized hardwood logs so oftentimes a single layer is about all I want to handle. An average haul for me would be a couple miles. Ten miles would be a long haul. This is Iowa so we don't have grades or twists in the road.

What I use is some pretty heavy 3" C channel that drops into the stake pockets. I welded a nut to them to act as a stop so they can't slide in too far. They only stick up about 22" above the bed if I remember right so they only contact the first layer of logs. The second layer, if there is one, sits in the cracks of the first layer and it all gets held down with heavy ratchet straps.

I figured the short height would help protect the trailer by limiting leverage and would also keep me from being tempted to load too high. So far both of those have worked out. A couple times I've rolled big logs a little too hard when loading and a couple of the C channels have a slight bend in them but no damage to the trailer.

I pull them out before unloading logs with the skidloader.

Alan
Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #42 on: June 29, 2020, 01:27:46 PM »
PJ trailers, like the one Doc and I have, is a very good brand, and Resonators advice is spot on.  I actually did that, and saw how my certified PJ Trailer dealer mounted the weld on winches, and that is where I bought my first set of winches, as well as the straps.  That's also where I learned the trick of not burning the wires.  Now I get my straps from Amazon.  

If buying a new PJ, they offer sliding winches from the factory, and they also offer a totally protected winch hook bar, which is a piece of flat stock, run under the entire length of the trailer, where the winch hooks can attach, completely protected buy the trailer.  Pretty cool, but my trailer doesn't have one.

Another big factor in the design of this system is that nothing is done to alter the structural integrity of the trailer, because the bunks are removable and no modifications are made to the trailer itself.  So nothing is done to impact the load ratings or manufacturer certifications of the trailer.  Or equally important, its resale value.  

Also, a very good (maybe better) alternative to the weld winches are the ones that slide in a structural track, under the trailer.  This way, the winches can be slid sideways to any location on the trailer.  Both types have the same load rating, although I felt the weld on winches were inherently stronger.    

All modifications, including the construction of the bunks, can probably be done by any local PJ dealer, or any good trailer dealer, for that matter.  

Safety was my number one goal with this system, as I had just experienced a less than pleasant and somewhat expensive run in with the State DOT Troopers, and was not going to make that expensive mistake twice.

Here is one link of many (google "bottom mount weld on 4" web winch") that supply the 4" weld on winches, the 4" winch straps, as well as the winch bar, used to tighten them.

Storable Weld-On Truck Tie Down Winch [TW410] | US Cargo Control

Here are the sliding ones,
Storable Sliding Truck Tie Down Winch [TW420] | US Cargo Control

PJ offers the winches, but they are significantly more expensive.

Doc, I'll get some pictures this evening.







 
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Offline YellowHammer

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #43 on: June 29, 2020, 11:41:29 PM »
Picture of weld on winch.



 
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Offline snowstorm

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2020, 06:44:00 AM »
Boys i dont mean to be a stickler about it and yellowhammer i think your bunks are excellent... I dont doubt them a bit. But the metal nerd in me is compelled to correct the statement that round tube is "stronger" than square.  

Look up modulus of elasticity and moment of inertia calcs for any structural material you want.  Size and wall thickness being equal, square tube is more rigid than round.  That is to say a HREW  3x3x.250 square tube has less deflection over the same unsupported span as a 3" x .250 wall round tube.  

A round tube however has much higher torsional load bearing properties, hence its superiority is driveshafting and power transmission.  You can also use the same calculations to consider the effect of thicker wall vs larger diameter in order to balance strength to weight ratio as well as cost.  Hint.. Big diameter thin wall is typically stronger and sometimes lighter than small diameter heavy wall.  One should use the largest diameter they can fit, and the minimum wall thickness that prevents localized denting.

Square standards are stronger than rounds.  But for fabrication purposes, they have yet to invent the square hole saw and plasma cutters cost a lot more than drill presses!
gotta agree with him. up here in the 60's everyone used round stakes. the 70's almost all were square. i trucked wood every day for 20 yrs. the bodies i built used 3\8" wall 4x4. and to move the stakes drill a hole in it and use a pulp hook. now days everyone has the deloupe stakes and pockets

Offline Skeans1

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2020, 08:09:17 AM »
How do you guys get away with using winchís and straps? Why not use at least two cable wrappers theyíll be a lot less likely to top during a hard braking event.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2020, 08:32:58 AM »
Since its a dual purpose setup, and I haul lots of expensive and finished lumber, (packs of $200 to $300 per board, sometimes) as well as logs, the cables would dig in and damage the corners of the the lumber packs badly. Straps cause much less damage to the lumber.  

Loggers here haul with wires or straps, so I went with straps.  DOT allows both, as long as the number used and load rating are sufficient.  I do carry a set of transport chains and binders as backup if a think a log load needs it. 

The standard Deloupe setup is super nice, but way overkill for a gooseneck, and I didnít like how they were designed to maximize the width if the load of logs and get them all the way out to the edge of the trailer, which is what a professional logger would want to maximize space and carrying capacity, but I knew I was weight capacity limited and also I thought the crossmemebers were too high for a gooseneck.  So I asked a couple companies to build me some custom ones with lower uprights that fit inside the rub rail, and wouldnít have to be permanently attached to the trailer as these are generally welded or bolted to the trailer, which I didnít want to do.  I also wanted the log load narrower, pulled inside the trailer footprint, to maximize the stability of the gooseneck, and to be able to use the rub rails.  I donít remember the prices I was quoted, but it was wow expensive.  So I just built my own version.  



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Offline Skeans1

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #47 on: June 30, 2020, 08:39:43 AM »
@YellowHammer 
Just because you can use nylon doesnít mean you should. Itís more likely to slip on you then a wire that goes all the way around the load and meets up to a chain binder. Up here even on the hay rack trailers the straps are illegal because of that exact reason they can have something slip as well they donít tighten the load to itself.

Offline YellowHammer

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2020, 08:58:00 AM »
These are DOT legal, rated and annually inspected truckers straps and winches, and if I had any issues, I would swap them out immediately.  Iím not sure what you mean by not pulling a load together, thatís one thing they do well, they pull my packs of lumber and logs tightly together, just as on any semi truck flatbed lumber hauler, so they wonít move against each other.  Thatís very important for a secure load.  I donít know of any lumber haulers who use wire, at least in this part of the country.  All use web straps and winches.

Iím using a standard 32Ē trucker winch bar to tighten the winches, Iím not using ďhay haulerĒ ratchet straps from Tractor Supply.
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: goose neck into logging trailer
« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2020, 09:33:27 AM »
How do you guys get away with using winchís and straps?
Nothing illegal about it.  Section 3.1.2 only specs securements have a min WLL of 4000lbs.


Logs in a bunk need 1/6th of the total load WLL but not in a bunk requires the standard 1/2 of the load.


The only reason for cable on log trailers is that everyone would need rotator cuffs after trying to throw full lengths of 5/16 grade 70s.   I doubt many people can do it at all.  


Youd be a fool to use anything but strap to secure lumber.


Pallet rack screens with the braces knocked off and bent into L shapes makes a perfect bulkhead fence to keep individual sticks of lumber from poking forward.  I used them for steel and brick loads.
Revelation 3:20


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