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Author Topic: To me it was too much.  (Read 3658 times)

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Offline terrifictimbersllc

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2020, 06:13:45 AM »
I don’t think Brad‘s question is out of line, nor the Sawyers charging. In the end, it’s just wood and work. There’s no right answer.

I had a regular customer who often said “everyone else’s gig looks great until you try to do it yourself”
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Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2020, 06:18:09 AM »
Thank for all your information 👍

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2020, 06:42:16 AM »
To me it's the moving of the log and handling of the slabs.
I think the price was in the ball park.
That's just my opinion there is a cost of doing business. 
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Offline longtime lurker

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2020, 06:56:46 AM »
I quoted a job yesterday - seriously big one - and I know they're going to come back and tell me "too expensive."
And I know I'm not going to budge because their "too expensive" is my "cost + a reasonable margin"
Then they're going to tell me what they cam get it done for up the road
Then I'm going to remind them that they're talking to me for a reason.
And I'll either be busy sawing for them a month later or I'll be sawing some other job.... either way it'll be sawing at a price that sees my bills will get paid.

It's all fun and games until you've got every cent you possess tied up in property and equipment, and I'd be loath to say anyone else doing a job I can't/don't want to is too expensive. (except when they're too expensive lol)  FWIW I think the guy was too expensive.... you buy a bigger faster saw to run more an hour, but usually that more an hour equates to a lower cost of production. But specialised is specialised too so.... what its worth is individual dependant I feel.

You'll save yourself a couple hundred $ with the CSM allowing for the cost of your labour and good for you. (assuming nothing goes wrong and you dont need a chiropractors visit or 3 after). I've had that internal debate a lot lately myself..... just stay small /work hard / live simply / if I don't borrow money I don't have to pay it back. Problem is I don't see that as a way to do anything but work yourself to death in this industry anymore.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2020, 07:45:14 AM »
A log like that needs to be sawn as cheap as possible. It is hardwood, old, looks decayed and has a crotch in it. The planks will probably twist and split. After 3 years on sticks only the sound flat ones will sell and the others will have to be shortened and resawn. To start out spending $ 900 would be crazy. Get out the chainsaw and files.

Offline Magicman

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2020, 08:38:32 AM »
Regardless of the price, he was correct for not negotiating.  I certainly don't negotiate. 

As far as the price; I charge a third of that for normal sawing so is his specialty sawing price out of line considering his specialty investment?
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Offline richhiway

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2020, 08:41:07 AM »
The real cost of doing business and making a living is very high these days. The sawmill business is probably 50% "hobbyist" that do it part time and make a few dollars on the side.

So you can see in this instance where the two collided.

Of course you can do anything yourself for less,that is why most of us bought a mill to begin with.

Call a plumber lately?

Big difference making a living at something or doing it on the "side".

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Online btulloh

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2020, 08:48:29 AM »
Very interesting discussion. 
HM126

Online Sixacresand

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2020, 09:14:22 AM »
Probably he charges $900 because there is not a line of pickups and trailers waiting in the parking lot.  That may be the only job he has that week or month.  

Offline dgdrls

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #29 on: August 01, 2020, 09:17:25 AM »
"Am I off here or? "

I don't think its a question of being "off"
You asked for a service,  a price was given.
Your thought of what it should cost simply framed your go/no-go decision.

Question I have;  is a $1 B/F what other mills charge?  If so, he has no incentive to lower his fee,
Once the price goes down, word spreads and everyone wants that fee and will pull out some crazy coupon for another %10 off.

I suspect you'll mill it with the CSM and be happy you did. 

Best
D






Online WV Sawmiller

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #30 on: August 01, 2020, 09:26:14 AM »
Brad, 

  I have a counterpart with a Lucas slabber one county over that I used a couple years ago to slab a big walnut for me. A little smaller than your ash but similar. I had him cut it into 9/4 slabs and I left the center at 4.5" rather than splitting the pith. His rate was 50 cents per bf. I have sold one of those slabs so far and recovered my sawing and transportation expenses.

   He had a Lucas slabber set up in an old chicken house. He had a big loader outside to unload the log and load the slabs on my trailer. He had a forklift he used to position the log and remove the slabs from the sawing site inside. He had a roller table and as he cut every slab he put small pipe rollers between the slab and the cant and rolled them on to his table where he could get his forklift to them.

    I would have thought a a square inch/square ft price would have been more appropriate than a bf of the finished slab but that was his price and I thought it was reasonable, agreed to it, paid it and I would use him again if I need him. He did very good work.

    In this case I agree the sawyer has a lot of expensive equipment to pay for and maintain and think of him as a skilled tradesman doing the work so I would not consider his pricing out of line. You can always ask him "Can you saw it for ____?" then you decide if he agrees, says no or offers a compromise. In all honesty I don't negotiate on my sawing. I may be able to waive mileage or minimum charges if they are a repeat customer, close by or in an area where I will already be working but I don't normally offer such to new customers. Good luck.
Howard Green
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Offline mike_belben

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #31 on: August 01, 2020, 09:29:08 AM »
Iife goes on.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #32 on: August 01, 2020, 10:04:31 AM »
What do you think the blades cost on the thing. did you talk about hitting iron.
One thing nice about having a higher price he won't have you coming in and wasting his time anymore. :)
We didn't even get to that point.  But I assume like any other bandmill, he hits metal, I pay for the band.
And now we know so he won't be wasting my time either.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2020, 10:18:41 AM »
Thanks again everyone for your reactions thoughtful responses.  

I'm not faulting anyone for sticking to their price.  When you have a price you've determined, you should stick to it, and only you can make the decision of whether to change it based on any of the factor involved.  His price just shocked me, and I had a hard time making sense of it.

He said is mill was $80K. One of my afterthoughts was that the guy I use for excavating has more expensive single pieces of equipment than that, but his rate is no where near that.  The crane and operator we've hired is nowhere near that.  Again, it's his prerogative to set his own price and I have no qualm with that, other than there's no way in good conscience I can pay that versus a day or day and a half of my time.

Maybe he only wants to work part time?  I don't know. FYI, his father owns a large pallet company down the road a half mile.  I was buying pallets that day and trying to kill two birds with one stone.  I was planning to have the log hauled and the pallets back hauled.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Online WV Sawmiller

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2020, 10:38:33 AM »
Brad,

   Your call and nobody is faulting you for declining that price. You mention his mill is $80k. How much is his loader or forklift and other equipment he will be using? They factor in too. Are there other folks in the area who can do the work? If so what are their rates? Good luck.
Howard Green
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Online doc henderson

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #35 on: August 01, 2020, 11:08:49 AM »
I think you should get at least some professional courtesy!  as a fellow sawyer.  
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Offline Tom King

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #36 on: August 01, 2020, 11:17:08 AM »
I don't have anything to add, but would be curious to know how used his equipment looked.

Online WV Sawmiller

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #37 on: August 01, 2020, 11:18:00 AM »
Doc,

   Do you get a discount from other ER docs? Or maybe at least a little extra KY on the gloves before your exam or such? :D :D
Howard Green
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Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once"

Online ljohnsaw

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #38 on: August 01, 2020, 11:18:29 AM »
Very interesting thread!

Somewhat related.  I had a hydraulic hose split on my SkyTrac for the steering this week.  I could still steer, just not fast movements or it would spray.  About a 18" hose, ľ" outside so 3/8" inside?  Took it to the hydraulic shop and thought about replacing all 4 since they are pretty old.  How much are those fittings, maybe $10 each in bulk?  Probably less?  And the hose is pretty cheap when they buy massive quantities.  I do cash-no-receipt with them for a discount.  So he quotes me the list price first - $65.  Cash is $55.  Only had enough cash for one.  I don't negotiate but probably could have got it for $50.  Could I make it cheaper with screw-on fittings?  Probably, but wouldn't look as nice and I wouldn't have it in the 5 minutes it took them to make it.  When I replaced all the hoses on my Little Monster, the list price was $1,600 IIRC and I got them for $900 cash.
John Sawicky

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Online doc henderson

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Re: To me it was too much.
« Reply #39 on: August 01, 2020, 11:38:20 AM »
when I started, we did a lot of "curbside" consults.  I did it for anyone who worked for the hospital.  in the office I would bill "insurance only"  so no copay or deductible or out of pocket.  then the insurance co. said you have to charge us the same as you lowest price to anyone.  so 0$.  Now if we provide service, and no documentation, our malpractice carrier may refuse to cover a claim.  Occ. a fellow doc will pop in a room to get something lanced and or a steri strip or two.  WV you are not supposed to get that checked every week! :o :o :o :D :D :D
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor


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