Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails

[Aggieforester]

Howdy. Newby, been enjoying this community as a lurker. I'm a flatlander from south GA loblolly area, retiring to coastal WA. Bought a little 125 acre cutover tract, would appreciate some input on equipment to manage it. How small a CTL or skid steer with over the tire tracks would be stable on soft soil? Narrow Kioti ck3510hst wasn't very stable R4 tires, no standard options for bigger or wider), fairly tippy as I drove over trails (used it for several years and sold it, not the right tool for the job). Like the look of some of the fat tired orchard tractors with protected cabs but this area and work might be better suited for a CTL. I'm worried about soil compression and tree root damage. Some of the area is boggy, most of it gets standing water here in Western WA, 60" rain a year and sometimes 4" rain per day and alluvial soil and clay. Not worried about snow plowing, won't be on the land Nov- April, too wet to not damage the soil or get stuck. Mostly flat area but many stumps and hummocks; red alder, doug fir and some cedar. Has been logged several times and has some heavily rutted areas. It was clearcut in 2 sections in last 5 years, I've got mostly 4 and 2 year old seedlings, grass and scrub. Looking to get trails put in as dirt trails, no gravel. Not planning on logging or cut firewood myself but want to manage the alder for a 20 year rotation; Doug fir is 80 year rotation for timber. Hired guy with a JD 450 dozer to put in perimeter trails, cleared the slash from old skidder trails. 8 ft wide dozer on 6 ft wide average seedling spacing is a little too wide, looking to mow 6 ft wide trails to allow better access for management and hunting. Want to be able to put in more trails, keep brush, grass, Reed canary grass and scotch broom down. Got a gravel logging road from front to back to provide access, no pavement, lots of slash, few surface rocks. Summers are dry. Could rent a CTL and brush cutter short term and buy a tractor but would prefer having a long term CTL or skid steer to play with. Cutting that scotch broom back by hand or spraying it wasn't real effective and tractor wasn't suited to the soft soil. Want to do some trail building in hills at end of property and dig a pond but those are secondary considerations. Q1. Is a mid sized frame 50 hp skid or CTL stable enough on soft, uneven ground to blaze trails and then keep them mowed or do I need to move up to 90 large framed machine? Worried about soil compression on tires and tipping over, looking for an affordable medium. $30k budget for machine plus implements since this is a hobby, won't get any economic return until alder thinning in 15 years. Q2. I know tractors, ignorant on skid steers and CTLs other than reading. I've got tools for car and tractor maintenance, not for heavy equipment. Could I reasonably expect a 5 year old skid or CTL with 1500-2000 hours to last 10 years, 200 hours a year without having to replace a transmission or other very expensive item? I'm guessing the engine would be fine that long and would expect to do maintenance and track replacement. Got Kubota and New Holland dealers 20 miles away, Bobcat and Case 50 miles away but don't know any of them. Any wisdom or experience shared would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[barbender]

I'm not always real big on them, but ASV track loaders are without equal when it comes to a light footprint in my experience. They also ride much nicer and have better traction. They also have higher maintenance costs. I work with a guy that has a new ASV RT70, he just had a guy hire him to take care of some work in a low area that he couldn't work in his own Kubota track machine. 

[Walnut Beast]

I talked to a friend yesterday. He's got one of my older ASV Forestry 100. He was thinking of getting a new one. CAT brought out a new one to demo and he said it was great. But his main concern was it just didn't have the ground clearance 😊

[Walnut Beast]

With a 30k budget of machine and implements the trade off is older and higher hours. You could get something and it could work out fine. Or you could open a can of worms 

[Aggieforester]

Thanks. Yeah, clearance, track life, and maintenance...don't want to be broken down in the back 40, trying to do a major repair. Heard horror stories about $10k small dozers that needed $15k in transmission repairs... ASVs look slick, not sure an RT-40 would last too long running a light duty brush hog all day in the rough...and can't afford purchase or repair on a 125.

[Haleiwa]

Over the tire tracks and forestry are a bad combination.  Any stick that gets caught between the tire and the track (and there will be a lot of them) will jam your drive train or damage the tire.  You need a forestry equipped CTL.  Terex is a good one, but for the work you want to do, you need a bigger one than you think.  My PT110F puts out 45 gpm, and it takes it all to run my mulching head.  My advice would be to spend your money on a good loader of at least 110 horse, a grapple, and a bucket.  The mulching heads are expensive, and you can rent one as you need it to avoid tying up another $25,000.

[nativewolf]

I have a Kubota svl95 and I have to say that I do not find it useful in the woods, no ground clearance.  Great for fields, wood lots, firewood, etc.  I would say perhaps a skidder with a blade might be more helpful or a wider stance tractor, the orchard models.  Now the orchard models are low to the ground ( I live amongst quite a few vineyards) and they often have tires that would need to get swapped.  

Here is another idea.  Rent a bulldozer for a month to put trails in place, maybe $3000, then small excavator to do anything the dozer can't.  Maybe another $2000 for that.  This would get your basic dirtwork done and done with equipment that was new and under the rental agreement insurance protection (no worries if you break it).  

This would leave you $25,000 to buy an older skidder that is simple to work on, a garret or old TJ etc.  The skidder would have a basic blade, could pull firewood, would not mind stumps so much, etc.  Be sure to budget another  $2000 or so on seed & straw ( get good native seed stock, great for wildlife) to get the trails set for rains.  Anyway, my experience that if you break down the task you really need and the best machine for the task...well you may find that rentals of specific equipment that is purpose built for the job at hand allows the remaining funds to be spent on the most appropriate equipment to own without a weak compromise that leaves you second guessing yourself, hating the project, and being miserable.  Not that I've ever made that mistake  :D.

Another option is to hire someone to do the trails but if you are retired than your time is your own and a rental may be the ticket.  Up to you.

Now, how about some pictures.

[barbender]

A medium frame CTL in the 60-70 hp range will do what you need. A standard flow brush mower should work for the grass, weeds, and light brush. If you're looking to do really heavy mowing or mulching, you need a lot more machine.

[nativewolf]

I have a Kubota svl95 and I have to say that I do not find it useful in the woods, no ground clearance.  Great for fields, wood lots, firewood, etc.  I would say perhaps a skidder with a blade might be more helpful or a wider stance tractor, the orchard models.  Now the orchard models are low to the ground ( I live amongst quite a few vineyards) and they often have tires that would need to get swapped.  

Here is another idea.  Rent a bulldozer for a month to put trails in place, maybe $3000, then small excavator to do anything the dozer can't.  Maybe another $2000 for that.  This would get your basic dirtwork done and done with equipment that was new and under the rental agreement insurance protection (no worries if you break it).  

This would leave you $25,000 to buy an older skidder that is simple to work on, a garret or old TJ etc.  The skidder would have a basic blade, could pull firewood, would not mind stumps so much, etc.  Be sure to budget another  $2000 or so on seed & straw ( get good native seed stock, great for wildlife) to get the trails set for rains.  Anyway, my experience that if you break down the task you really need and the best machine for the task...well you may find that rentals of specific equipment that is purpose built for the job at hand allows the remaining funds to be spent on the most appropriate equipment to own without a weak compromise that leaves you second guessing yourself, hating the project, and being miserable.  Not that I've ever made that mistake  :D.

Another option is to hire someone to do the trails but if you are retired than your time is your own and a rental may be the ticket.  Up to you.

Now, how about some pictures.

PS ASV maint can be very very painful.

[stavebuyer]

You have a long list of concerns. A mid size CTL would handle annual mowing of regrowth just fine as well as have the lightest footprint. The downsides to one in the woods is they have very poor ground clearance, poor visibility to rear even if equipped with a camera, and will loose traction quickly in wet clay soils if you break through the vegetative layer. They also are a royal pain to work on due to the confined space as well as a fire hazard with trapped debris in the belly pan and engine compartment. I could use mine to mow a swampy area you could not walk through but get stuck on clay woods road that a 4wd tractor would not spin a tire on. Plentiful as they are to rent, I would go that route as a trial to see if it suited. I personally prefer a guarded tractor for woods tasks.

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, folks. That's the difference between me having a little bit of book knowledge and watching people for 10 minutes on jobs and y'all doing it for years. I'll have to see if I can add photos from my smartphone or if I need to break out my laptop. That Kioti was fun, ran it on a small place in VA and in WA, but was too narrow. Drop a small front tire in a soft spot and things got cattywampus fast. Thanks again!

[Aggieforester]

Pics of my place December 2018 as I was buying it and summer of 19 getting a dozer to do a perimeter and a couple interior trails. Braided streams are common, including trails turning into streams...

 

 

[Aggieforester]

Some more

 

 

[mike_belben]

Wheeled bobcats have no suspension at all so theyre about like driving a warehouse forklift over potholes.. Rattle your guts pretty good and chew up everything.  Very easily stuck. 

Ag machinery has been run on saturated fields for ages by putting on duals front and rear.  Swamp loggers do the same.  Is that an option for you?  Itll cut your ground pressure in half. 

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, Mike. I'll have to consider tractors with wider stance and either fat orchard/soft ground wheels or doubles to purchase if I rent heavy equipment for the hard stuff first. Cat 299 D3 Land Management if I win the lotto... Don't know if air ride seats on CTL or wheeled skid steers would soften the ride much.
Doug

[mike_belben]

Seat suspension would probably be a big improvement over sitting on steel with a little foam.

[Bruno of NH]

My friend has an ASV loved it till repair and maintenance bills started rolling in.
Would have gave it to me when I was looking for a skid steer.
Priced out the repairs and future maintenance and ended up with big Bob.
CTL will have to come when I win the power ball :D

[Skeans1]

What part of the coast in Washington? The biggest problems we have out here with CTL or rubber tire equipment isn't the wet so much as ground clearance. You need to be spraying and slashing it'll go a lot further in your efforts.

Can I ask why such a short alder rotation? A 55 to 60 year rotation in Douglas fir seems to be about the perfect number.

[Aggieforester]

Howdy, Skeans1. We're near Centralia, off I-5 a bit. Local mill buys alder for chip, I'm told by the state forester who helped me with my management plan. We'll see how it goes. I know the county planted improved poplars, but have no market now. Neighbor said trespassers were on our place again, so likely won't leave equipment there, even in a conex, behind a locked gate. Guess I better size my truck and tractor/CTL at the same time...

[Aggieforester]

Bruno, what's Big Bob? Curious what's working for you. Have driven through NH but haven't spent time there. Plenty of hilly stuff!
Doug

[Bruno of NH]

Big Bob is a 974 bobcat .
It's very heavy I use it in a mill yard as my loader.
I wouldn't want to cross any soft ground with it.
It would sink to the bottom.
But they did make a version of it with grosser tracks with a shear head for dropping trees.
Others on here know more about that one than I.
My property is wet and is next to my friend that has the ASV and I have seen that machine go in some very soft areas without sinking in.
It has wide tracks and higher ground clearance than other ctls out there. I don't know how well the under carriage stands up to rocks or stumps.

[barbender]

The reason I brought up the ASV was their ability to work on soft ground, slopes clay, you name it. The undercarriage can be really expensive to maintain, but they will do things that other machines can't even come close. If I was doing general construction work and such I'd look at other CTL machines first. ASV have way higher ground clearance as well. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them, but there's no getting around the fact that they will do more on challenging ground. If for a business, you have to charge enough for it. If for personal use, you just have to be able to afford it😁 BTW, the smaller RT50 and RT60 machines are a lot less powerful than the bigger machines, but have a reputation for much less maintenance then their big brothers. They don't tear themselves apart. One other thing I don't like about them (and Cat machines for that matter) is the Perkins engine. Perkins has made some great engines over the years, these don't seem to be among them.

[Skeans1]

Howdy, Skeans1. We're near Centralia, off I-5 a bit. Local mill buys alder for chip, I'm told by the state forester who helped me with my management plan. We'll see how it goes. I know the county planted improved poplars, but have no market now. Neighbor said trespassers were on our place again, so likely won't leave equipment there, even in a conex, behind a locked gate. Guess I better size my truck and tractor/CTL at the same time...

Oh ok I'm about an hour south of you across the river from Longview, Wa. There's two alder mills there Cascade and Northwest Hardwoods, my personal alder rotation is probably around 60 years old it's where we feel we get the best dollar in return for scale and our fir rotation is around 90 years old. As for the poplar hybrids there was a ton planted in my area when James River owned Wauna paper mill to feed it. We use our rubber tired skid steer in the forestry rows for mowing but our rows are planted with a tractor and wide enough to pass for the first 5 years.

[mike_belben]

Barko 1080 is the machine youre talkin about bruno.  The 1080C has planetary hubs which is much desired. 

[Walnut Beast]

What part of the coast in Washington? The biggest problems we have out here with CTL or rubber tire equipment isn't the wet so much as ground clearance. You need to be spraying and slashing it'll go a lot further in your efforts.

Can I ask why such a short alder rotation? A 55 to 60 year rotation in Douglas fir seems to be about the perfect number.

Neighbors got a montezuma tree saw for CTL/Skid with a spray kit on it. He says it works pretty good. About 4,500. Said he uses it for the year and sells for 2,500 then buys a new one 

[Walnut Beast]

The reason I brought up the ASV was their ability to work on soft ground, slopes clay, you name it. The undercarriage can be really expensive to maintain, but they will do things that other machines can't even come close. If I was doing general construction work and such I'd look at other CTL machines first. ASV have way higher ground clearance as well. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them, but there's no getting around the fact that they will do more on challenging ground. If for a business, you have to charge enough for it. If for personal use, you just have to be able to afford it😁 BTW, the smaller RT50 and RT60 machines are a lot less powerful than the bigger machines, but have a reputation for much less maintenance then their big brothers. They don't tear themselves apart. One other thing I don't like about them (and Cat machines for that matter) is the Perkins engine. Perkins has made some great engines over the years, these don't seem to be among them.

The ASV 120 RT Forestry with the new Fecon Blackhawk Mulcher head is going to be my next machine. That head is amazing. ASV has a new 75 Max that's coming out with 360 degree view. It's pretty sweet!!

[Aggieforester]

Thanks all, appreciate the advice! Now I'll be dreaming about an ASV120...wonder if the wife will keep working so I can make the monthly payments and maintenance bills...ha. I'll have to do some more research on the ASV RT40 and larger, used prices are decent and I could tow it with my current truck.

[Walnut Beast]

The reason I brought up the ASV was their ability to work on soft ground, slopes clay, you name it. The undercarriage can be really expensive to maintain, but they will do things that other machines can't even come close. If I was doing general construction work and such I'd look at other CTL machines first. ASV have way higher ground clearance as well. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them, but there's no getting around the fact that they will do more on challenging ground. If for a business, you have to charge enough for it. If for personal use, you just have to be able to afford it😁 BTW, the smaller RT50 and RT60 machines are a lot less powerful than the bigger machines, but have a reputation for much less maintenance then their big brothers. They don't tear themselves apart. One other thing I don't like about them (and Cat machines for that matter) is the Perkins engine. Perkins has made some great engines over the years, these don't seem to be among them.

The 120 has a Cummins Engine 

[Riwaka]

Some of the dozers (that could have a rear power take off and linkage added to run a brush hog) in your price range look pretty worn out.

The New Holland TK 100 (might be in budget) has the metal crawler tracks of a dozer and a pto and linkage. Just need to figure out the rops and AC. - maybe exact cabs could figure something out.

New Holland TK100
New holland tk 100 - YouTube

Exact E cab
The Exact E-Cab Harvesting Cab for John Deere - YouTube

Build you own Woods Boss from a John Deere or NH donor tractor. (How much have the yellow jackets and killer bees spread?- surely it might be an idea to have an enclosed cab mulching in the woods, unless one wears a bee suit instead)
WOODS BOSS - YouTube

CMI mulchers  mostly look a bit beyond budget.

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, Riwaka. Yeah, I've hit ground hornets and bees there already but did a Monty Python, run away, run away. I like the looks of that TK80 and 100. Orchard cabs are common down in CA, might have to drive down there to find a used tractor with one or, as you suggested, build one up. 

[Skeans1]

@Aggieforester 
You should be able to head over the mount to Yakima or even Wenatchee and find those cab style tractors with all the fruit growers over there.

[Aggieforester]

Good point, Skeans1. Saw WA Tractor, Yakima had some nice stuff but pricey. Like the low profile Antonio Carrera but figured the articulated frame wouldn't hold up if I push much dirt with an aftermarket FEL. Liking what I see of a NH TD4040F, low profile and 24" front tires should be stable in swampy and rutted soil. Guess I could put the time into doing the dirt work to level all the trails. But many of the cabbed orchard tractors are $50k, plus cost of bushhog, more than I can spend on a hobby.

[Bruno of NH]

It to bad no one in the states imports the Hamey trio 
Steel tracks,loader,dozer blade and 3pt hitch.
Has a Perkins engine
I would like one.
Only available down under.
U-bulb has some movies on it.

[quilbilly]

Aggie I'm logging in Centralia right now. I can't believe the state Forester recommended 20 years for alder. That's just crazy. The price difference between chips and sawlogs is enormous. Also if you grow to at least a twelve inch top you will get top $ as that's the last price increase based on diameter for sawlogs and it will meet the minimum size for alder slicers which pay double that of sawlogs. 

Fir for 80 years is super long. We are cutting 35 YO right now and getting 750 for it in Longview. I agree with skeans, you're in a top notch growing area and I'd wait until it's in the 50 year range and then log it on a hot market after that. BTW I'm not big on the short 35 YO rotation, but it's what the big guys are doing now. 80 year old fir in Lewis county will reach 160+ ft. At that age you might have wood that's too big for local mills and need to get a special order or ship 3+ hours. 

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, Quilbilly. My place has a decent site index. Was talking to the state guy about rotations and income; just like loblolly, you can cut early but low return on investment. I'm surprised fir saw logs in 50, thought it was longer. But yeah, don't want them too big. I'll have to load pics of some buddies dropping a 500 year old spruce, 6 or 7 ft diameter and 225 ft tall, punk center... exciting!

Bruno, I saw the Hanmey, looks like the Nortrac version. Interesting stuff. This guy is importing now, too, as is Awassos. Don't know how reliable the machine is but looks good for my application. I saw a Sweco trail dozer working, that thing is nice but expensive. https://mcmusa.equipment/dozers

[quilbilly]

I'm not sure how long you've been out here but that isn't very big for a spruce that old. Head up to Olympic national Park and you can still find some big ones. My pops cut lots of em in the 10+ ft dia range. That is good on height though. 

There was a job just outside Centralia we bought 90 YO fir off of that was 120 ft to the first limb on most of em. They were a little too big for local mills but we had a temple log order for them. 

[Aggieforester]

Nice, Quilbilly. Yeah, I've spent some time Oly NF and NP, some awesome old growth. Some guys in a Forest Service Sawyer class near Forks, WA, taking out some diseased old growth in a campground. So much bigger than the pines I grew up with in GA!

 

[Satamax]

Doug, wouldn't a secondhand snowcat do the job? 

PistenBully Paana | GreenTech | mowing and mulching - YouTube

You wouldn't get a little Paana in the us, i would think. 

PistenBully Paana | GreenTech | mowing and mulching - YouTube

But transforming a bigger snowcat into something like this is quite easy as i have heard. 

Dameuse agricole - YouTube

Plenty of examples on youtube. 

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, Satamax, I'll have to look into that.

[Aggieforester]

Satamax, I enjoyed those videos, thanks. A quick search didn't show too many snowcats or similar for sale here at a decent price. Maybe Case will sell their DL550B as an alternative to small dozers, but even used in 5 years, I expect it to be out of my price range. But neat! https://www.forconstructionpros.com/equipment/earthmoving-compact/track-loaders/article/21136442/case-construction-equipment-cnh-case-dl550b-minotaur-adds-real-dozer-specs-at-the-top-of-compact-track-loaders 

[quilbilly]

It is amazing how tall the spruce will get isn't it. Oh one more thing. If you've got some cedar try to cut in the fall if the market is decent. You can get the brush pickers in there to do boughs and make a little extra money. It's a pain but can be worth it. 

[dhjmd]

Hi aggieforester, I too am a newby to this site.  I also struggled with the quandary you are now, back in 2014.  We bought 53 acres, which is basically a low-lying valley with houses completely surrounding at about 100'-150' higher elevation (so it's almost ALWAYS damp, or worse!)  Same deal as you, single gravel road put in down the middle from east to west.  Judging from your pics (I can't post any yet), forest is probably a bit thicker than yours, as you mentioned timber harvests having occurred in the past, and about 30 acres of ours is in need of selection.

Back then, I had a 4x4 NH TC24DA HST (R-4 tires) with FEL already that I primarily used to finish mow the homestead.  It took me about three months working the FEL on this property to figure out something different was needed (only weighed about 2,000 lb, was good for maneuvering in tight spaces and had good ground clearance, just had no traction or bite due to leaves, ground vegetation, fallen limbs, old stumps, etc. and left me puckering and cussing constantly.)  Within another month, I had a new Cat 289D with all the forestry protection I could get from the factory (+ poly front door.)  I did get the rear counterweights but also got the wide-track and triple tread idlers.  Machine with basic dirt bucket weighs around 11,500 lb.  I should say I also ran a 259D at the dealership and it's just a lighter, smaller-footprint of a machine so it didn't feel as stable, especially backing up slopes.  You know the old adage about buying at least one size bigger than you think you'll need (ok, the 289D was actually two sizes larger than the 259D ;D)

In six years of owning/operating, stability has been very good, almost a little too good at times (when you run over any limb or trunk of much size, you're gonna know it!)  And while they can certainly become unstable real quick, it's not even in the same realm as a four wheel tractor (CoG is night/day different obviously.)  I can honestly say that ground clearance hasn't been an issue.  Every once in a great while, I will get a small limb jammed in between the frame and the undercarriage but that's usually only when I'm pushing a brush pile 3x the size of the CTL (one of those, "the CTL is in there somewhere" moments!)  For sure agree with other comments, seeing rearward is not ideal, though the backup camera is invaluable - once I got used to it, I found myself not even turning my head back/forth, as it gives wide enough visibility to see the things that will do real damage  as long as you pay attention to it :D 

Recently the NH literally broke in two, so I have a new Kubota L6060CAB HST with FEL, PF, QH, DH, FM, GS, and RC on order.  Will be using the FEL and GS to maintain the road (previously used the CTL bucket :() and RC to maintain ditches and trails.  If you do go the tractor route, you may want to consider a DH option for rough or rutted trails (unless those areas are/remain dry, in which case a BB or GS may be more effective.)  Last thought...you may need to open up the purse strings a bit more, $30K for a machine and attachments to maintain something the size you're talking about could lead you places you're not interested in going...keep us posted, we're all anxiously awaiting your decision(s)!  

8)

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, DHJMD! Yeah, it'll be interesting. I'm finishing up an out of state job, eager to get back there and play when I start retirement in 2 years. I was looking at Cat 299 vs 259, that 11" of track on ground and 3000 lbs difference really comes across from others' stories as being very noticeable for stability. Might pick up something next summer when I'm back to keep the trails mowed. And you're right, I have no merchantable timber, just a riparian buffer and new stuff, looking forward to managing and thinning.

[Fern Wood]

I Replaced the tracks at 1850 hours on my cat 279c at a cost of around 3k. 

[Walnut Beast]

 

 Rubber tracks do just fine in forestry. Ground pressure is 4.3 on these units. So very good in soft ground.  This guy runs 4 of these hard along with a big Prentice mulcher and two big excavators with heads. Now if your running one in the scrap yard and it's  cutting the track deep that's not good 

[stavebuyer]

Rubber tracks will load up with wet clay and stick you in places a 2 wheel drive tractor would go through. They will climb a grade that will scare you when its dry; but let them tracks hit KY red clay or even worse the blue gray clay in the knobs. Been there and that's the reason I sent a paid for CAT down the road with a 1000 hours. It was useless in the woods in winter when I really needed it. They turn on a dime until you turn into a stump/root/rock and throw off a track to the inside in the mud on a hillside. You will invent words of praise for it then.

Rent before you buy if your mainly going to play in the woods with it. They are plenty handy for lots of tasks but deep lug tires preferably with chains or steel tracks are what you need in the woods.

[Walnut Beast]

I disagree 😂.  Should have went with a ASV. I've owned 3 of them, a couple CAT units and I know what they can do. I'm aware of the problems CAT 299s have on there machines. That's why I went with another ASV 

[barbender]

I always say, ASV are another animal altogether and shouldn't even be lumped together with other track machines. I don't even like them that much, but dang it they will go through anything! 

[Aggieforester]

Thanks, all. Many things to consider! And I'll need to upgrade to an F250 or 350 if I get a bigger machine. Too many break-ins and my woodlot is 20 miles from my house, get lots of trespassers so leaving a tractor in a barn won't work (maybe conex is ok). I'll probably rent a compact track loader and good brush mower so I can mow and put up strong fences as my first project...and give me some time to try before I look to buy.

[Walnut Beast]

Sounds like you need to invest in some wireless cameras with lock boxes hidden higher up in the tree or have a dummy camera they notice then the good one pointed that way from a sneaky location

[Aggieforester]

Good point, Walnut Beast. Had some game cams set up, great pics of the local elk, deer and coyotes (hate those buggers, they eat all the rabbits). Got some photos of trespassers but sometimes hard to get good images in the rain and fog of PNW. Will invest in clearing property edges, installing barb wire and signs, better gate at the front (they can't drive past my logging gate but they hop it), and yes, some cameras. Rash of break ins in our area lately (Pe Ell, WA and Rainbow State Park are particularly in the news). The mushroom pickers like to cruise through to get to the 15,000 acre private timber company lands on the plateau behind me. And had people skinning some of my maples down by the creek, looking for music wood, lots of local wood theft for that high value timber. And people steal Western red cedar stumps and logs to sell to shake mills. Plus the normal idjits driving their ATVs.

[421Altered]

I bought a used JD323E CTL a year ago to use on my farm in South Georgia.  I was also concerned about a used machine.  A farmer friend of mine said if I bought a used machine from a dealer most would rent the machine to you and then you could try it out and see if it had any problems.  At end of month, for any reason you don't want it, back it goes. So, when i found the machine I wanted, I rented it for one month, or 160 hours.  I found it's almost impossible to put that many hours on it in a month!!  I found only thing wrong with it was windshield washer tank would not hold fluid, which didn't bother me at all.  At end of month I bought it, and rent minus 20% was taken off purchase price.  I could not be happier with it!!  I have a enclosed cab and highly recommend them.  With an open cab, you wear whatever you are dumping unless you pay a lot of attention to wind direction, and that's not always possible.  Do not even think about buying a machine at an auction!!  Some auction companies will not even let you crank them up, and if they do, you can't drive it!!  Stay away from them!  I'm not saying there are not good machines at auctions, but, you are taking a huge gamble on them.

[Walnut Beast]

Congratulations. What year is it and how many hours were on it. Let's see some pictures 👍

[Aggieforester]

421Altered, I like your way of doing it. Renting and buy is an interesting option. Guess you're running 9000 or so lbs for your loader and 1500 or 2000 for a brush mower, etc.? I like the idea of wide tracks, bogging and getting stuck in the creek or bottom land would be easier to avoid in something like your 323 vs a Kubota MX5400 tractor.. Definitely have to look at a bigger truck to move whatever I buy around. I maxed out my Nissan Frontier with a Kioti CK3510HST, FEL, and implements, learned from that... And hiring someone to move stuff from tree farm to my house when needed would get expensive, the few times a year I'd need to.