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Author Topic: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails  (Read 1300 times)

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Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2020, 09:35:10 PM »
Big Bob is a 974 bobcat .
It's very heavy I use it in a mill yard as my loader.
I wouldn't want to cross any soft ground with it.
It would sink to the bottom.
But they did make a version of it with grosser tracks with a shear head for dropping trees.
Others on here know more about that one than I.
My property is wet and is next to my friend that has the ASV and I have seen that machine go in some very soft areas without sinking in.
It has wide tracks and higher ground clearance than other ctls out there. I don't know how well the under carriage stands up to rocks or stumps.
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls Riehl Steel edger,F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

Offline barbender

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2020, 10:44:41 PM »
The reason I brought up the ASV was their ability to work on soft ground, slopes clay, you name it. The undercarriage can be really expensive to maintain, but they will do things that other machines can't even come close. If I was doing general construction work and such I'd look at other CTL machines first. ASV have way higher ground clearance as well. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them, but there's no getting around the fact that they will do more on challenging ground. If for a business, you have to charge enough for it. If for personal use, you just have to be able to afford it😁 BTW, the smaller RT50 and RT60 machines are a lot less powerful than the bigger machines, but have a reputation for much less maintenance then their big brothers. They don't tear themselves apart. One other thing I don't like about them (and Cat machines for that matter) is the Perkins engine. Perkins has made some great engines over the years, these don't seem to be among them.
Too many irons in the fire

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2020, 11:29:23 PM »
Howdy, Skeans1. We're near Centralia, off I-5 a bit. Local mill buys alder for chip, I'm told by the state forester who helped me with my management plan. We'll see how it goes. I know the county planted improved poplars, but have no market now. Neighbor said trespassers were on our place again, so likely won't leave equipment there, even in a conex, behind a locked gate. Guess I better size my truck and tractor/CTL at the same time...
Oh ok Iím about an hour south of you across the river from Longview, Wa. Thereís two alder mills there Cascade and Northwest Hardwoods, my personal alder rotation is probably around 60 years old itís where we feel we get the best dollar in return for scale and our fir rotation is around 90 years old. As for the poplar hybrids there was a ton planted in my area when James River owned Wauna paper mill to feed it. We use our rubber tired skid steer in the forestry rows for mowing but our rows are planted with a tractor and wide enough to pass for the first 5 years.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2020, 01:41:32 AM »
Barko 1080 is the machine youre talkin about bruno.  The 1080C has planetary hubs which is much desired. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2020, 02:49:32 AM »
What part of the coast in Washington? The biggest problems we have out here with CTL or rubber tire equipment isnít the wet so much as ground clearance. You need to be spraying and slashing itíll go a lot further in your efforts.

Can I ask why such a short alder rotation? A 55 to 60 year rotation in Douglas fir seems to be about the perfect number.
Neighbors got a montezuma tree saw for CTL/Skid with a spray kit on it. He says it works pretty good. About 4,500. Said he uses it for the year and sells for 2,500 then buys a new one 

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2020, 03:23:23 AM »
The reason I brought up the ASV was their ability to work on soft ground, slopes clay, you name it. The undercarriage can be really expensive to maintain, but they will do things that other machines can't even come close. If I was doing general construction work and such I'd look at other CTL machines first. ASV have way higher ground clearance as well. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them, but there's no getting around the fact that they will do more on challenging ground. If for a business, you have to charge enough for it. If for personal use, you just have to be able to afford it😁 BTW, the smaller RT50 and RT60 machines are a lot less powerful than the bigger machines, but have a reputation for much less maintenance then their big brothers. They don't tear themselves apart. One other thing I don't like about them (and Cat machines for that matter) is the Perkins engine. Perkins has made some great engines over the years, these don't seem to be among them.
The ASV 120 RT Forestry with the new Fecon Blackhawk Mulcher head is going to be my next machine. That head is amazing. ASV has a new 75 Max thatís coming out with 360 degree view. Itís pretty sweet!!

Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2020, 05:41:13 AM »
Thanks all, appreciate the advice! Now I'll be dreaming about an ASV120...wonder if the wife will keep working so I can make the monthly payments and maintenance bills...ha. I'll have to do some more research on the ASV RT40 and larger, used prices are decent and I could tow it with my current truck.

Offline Walnut Beast

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2020, 06:42:24 AM »
The reason I brought up the ASV was their ability to work on soft ground, slopes clay, you name it. The undercarriage can be really expensive to maintain, but they will do things that other machines can't even come close. If I was doing general construction work and such I'd look at other CTL machines first. ASV have way higher ground clearance as well. I have kind of a love/hate relationship with them, but there's no getting around the fact that they will do more on challenging ground. If for a business, you have to charge enough for it. If for personal use, you just have to be able to afford it😁 BTW, the smaller RT50 and RT60 machines are a lot less powerful than the bigger machines, but have a reputation for much less maintenance then their big brothers. They don't tear themselves apart. One other thing I don't like about them (and Cat machines for that matter) is the Perkins engine. Perkins has made some great engines over the years, these don't seem to be among them.
The 120 has a Cummins Engine 

Offline Riwaka

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2020, 06:47:09 AM »
Some of the dozers (that could have a rear power take off and linkage added to run a brush hog) in your price range look pretty worn out.

The New Holland TK 100 (might be in budget) has the metal crawler tracks of a dozer and a pto and linkage. Just need to figure out the rops and AC. - maybe exact cabs could figure something out.

New Holland TK100


Exact E cab


Build you own Woods Boss from a John Deere or NH donor tractor. (How much have the yellow jackets and killer bees spread?- surely it might be an idea to have an enclosed cab mulching in the woods, unless one wears a bee suit instead)


CMI mulchers  mostly look a bit beyond budget.

Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2020, 07:28:26 AM »
Thanks, Riwaka. Yeah, I've hit ground hornets and bees there already but did a Monty Python, run away, run away. I like the looks of that TK80 and 100. Orchard cabs are common down in CA, might have to drive down there to find a used tractor with one or, as you suggested, build one up. 

Offline Skeans1

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2020, 07:40:47 AM »
@Aggieforester 
You should be able to head over the mount to Yakima or even Wenatchee and find those cab style tractors with all the fruit growers over there.

Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2020, 08:10:07 AM »
Good point, Skeans1. Saw WA Tractor, Yakima had some nice stuff but pricey. Like the low profile Antonio Carrera but figured the articulated frame wouldn't hold up if I push much dirt with an aftermarket FEL. Liking what I see of a NH TD4040F, low profile and 24" front tires should be stable in swampy and rutted soil. Guess I could put the time into doing the dirt work to level all the trails. But many of the cabbed orchard tractors are $50k, plus cost of bushhog, more than I can spend on a hobby.

Offline Bruno of NH

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2020, 01:15:12 PM »
It to bad no one in the states imports the Hamey trio 
Steel tracks,loader,dozer blade and 3pt hitch.
Has a Perkins engine
I would like one.
Only available down under.
U-bulb has some movies on it.
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Offline quilbilly

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #33 on: August 15, 2020, 02:40:54 PM »
Aggie I'm logging in Centralia right now. I can't believe the state Forester recommended 20 years for alder. That's just crazy. The price difference between chips and sawlogs is enormous. Also if you grow to at least a twelve inch top you will get top $ as that's the last price increase based on diameter for sawlogs and it will meet the minimum size for alder slicers which pay double that of sawlogs. 

Fir for 80 years is super long. We are cutting 35 YO right now and getting 750 for it in Longview. I agree with skeans, you're in a top notch growing area and I'd wait until it's in the 50 year range and then log it on a hot market after that. BTW I'm not big on the short 35 YO rotation, but it's what the big guys are doing now. 80 year old fir in Lewis county will reach 160+ ft. At that age you might have wood that's too big for local mills and need to get a special order or ship 3+ hours. 
a man is strongest on his knees

Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #34 on: August 15, 2020, 05:41:38 PM »
Thanks, Quilbilly. My place has a decent site index. Was talking to the state guy about rotations and income; just like loblolly, you can cut early but low return on investment. I'm surprised fir saw logs in 50, thought it was longer. But yeah, don't want them too big. I'll have to load pics of some buddies dropping a 500 year old spruce, 6 or 7 ft diameter and 225 ft tall, punk center... exciting!

Bruno, I saw the Hanmey, looks like the Nortrac version. Interesting stuff. This guy is importing now, too, as is Awassos. Don't know how reliable the machine is but looks good for my application. I saw a Sweco trail dozer working, that thing is nice but expensive. https://mcmusa.equipment/dozers

Offline quilbilly

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #35 on: August 15, 2020, 10:48:06 PM »
I'm not sure how long you've been out here but that isn't very big for a spruce that old. Head up to Olympic national Park and you can still find some big ones. My pops cut lots of em in the 10+ ft dia range. That is good on height though. 

There was a job just outside Centralia we bought 90 YO fir off of that was 120 ft to the first limb on most of em. They were a little too big for local mills but we had a temple log order for them. 
a man is strongest on his knees

Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #36 on: August 16, 2020, 05:24:17 AM »
Nice, Quilbilly. Yeah, I've spent some time Oly NF and NP, some awesome old growth. Some guys in a Forest Service Sawyer class near Forks, WA, taking out some diseased old growth in a campground. So much bigger than the pines I grew up with in GA!

 

Offline Satamax

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #37 on: August 16, 2020, 07:17:01 AM »
Doug, wouldn't a secondhand snowcat do the job? 



You wouldn't get a little Paana in the us, i would think. 



But transforming a bigger snowcat into something like this is quite easy as i have heard. 



Plenty of examples on youtube. 
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Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #38 on: August 16, 2020, 07:30:50 AM »
Thanks, Satamax, I'll have to look into that.

Offline Aggieforester

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Re: Skid Steer or CTL size for stability on soft soil and rough trails
« Reply #39 on: August 16, 2020, 07:44:50 AM »
Satamax, I enjoyed those videos, thanks. A quick search didn't show too many snowcats or similar for sale here at a decent price. Maybe Case will sell their DL550B as an alternative to small dozers, but even used in 5 years, I expect it to be out of my price range. But neat! https://www.forconstructionpros.com/equipment/earthmoving-compact/track-loaders/article/21136442/case-construction-equipment-cnh-case-dl550b-minotaur-adds-real-dozer-specs-at-the-top-of-compact-track-loaders 


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