Employee dress/appearance code

[Roxie]

The landscape design/build firm that I work for has a dress code, that is strictly in place because the crew and laborer's will be working around people's homes.  Very expensive homes.  Our average customer contract is $80,000.00  We provide free t-shirts, sweatshirts, and jackets that have the company logo on them.  Shoes must be work boots.  Jean's are permitted, but must have no holes.  Any display of underclothing and you will be sent home for the day and lose a day's wages.  No jewerly is permitted.  Tatto's must not be visible (band-aids are provided).  If hair is long, it must pulled back and be under the company provided (with logo) baseball cap style hat.  This information is provided to all applicants that apply for a position with the company.  I've seen these guys off-work with earrings and nose studs and tongue pierceing...but they do not come to work that way.  It's not an attempt to change their individualism and no judgement is made, but when these men are in the customer's view, they ARE the company. 

[Buzz-sawyer]

OWW
I have only seen your user pic..............BUT cant imagine you with a long braid....!!!!
I had LONG hair in the 70's...... 8) 8) 8)

[tnlogger]

 :D :D :D BUZZ we all had longhair in the 70s at least after uncle sam got done with us.

[OneWithWood]

Buzz, that long braid is hanging in the house along with many other mementos and trophies  ;D  I wanted to post a pic here from my wedding day when my hair was down and not braided - unfortunately the only pic I could find is in pretty poor shape.

[Buzz-sawyer]

OWW
Now come on Bro.......you gotta have one pic!!!!!!!!
I started a special thread for ya on the general board..mines up!!!!

[johncinquo]

Theres a couple people here who have it right on the head.   Roxie that is just about exactly how I have handled people in the past.  Whether your  doing outside nasty labor work or filing in my office, appropriate attire for the job is a must.  Whatever you want to look like on your own time is up to you.

I am a prime example of this myself.  I wear a suit or "business casual" every day to work.  See me on the weekend, and its jeans, cut off sleeves T-shirt, and a tattoo or two that I enjoy. 

Labor should be judged by what is done at the end of the day, but no one wants to hire a ragged looking crew to represent the company they have built up.  If an owner wants to be thought of as a professional, quality company, then they should present that from the very first phone call all the way through walking off the job on the last day.  The small things that people will remember, and tell your possible next customer about are what can make or break you. 

I have broken a couple kids of the baggy jeans thing.  The last one was a pure joy.  My neighbor kids are real great and always nice to be around.  I was out working in the yard and kept hearing some rough talk and general demeanor I dont hear from next door.  I noticed there was a different kid over there, so I called the two neighbor boys over and asked who he was.  They explained he was their cousin visiting.  A couple years older, and definetly trying to show up his younger cousins.   Baggy pants, boxers hangin out, piered ear, just general I'm so bad attire.  So I called him over and asked what was up with the pants.  He told me they were cool, and all the cool guys were em that way.   I said "oh, you really think so".  Then I went on to explain to him, in great detail, yet keeping in mind these fledging teens should only hear stuff up to a point, the exact origin of the baggy jeans getup.  Basicly, the trend was started in prison, when one prisoner essentially "owns" another man/boy.  To signify this ownership, the owner makes the ownee wear their britches like that.  If someone else wants to use his ownee, why he must ask permission and often times pay the fee for such use.   Most commonly referred to as his ....... female dog....  You get the idea.    I dont mind being the ruffian neighbor who parents regret to hear what their kids learned today, yet the keep sending them over to my house to have some things "explained" to them several times a year.  Its amazing what kids will say over a engine block and a few box end wrenches in their hands.   Anyway, when the discussion was over the two younger ones were laughing so hard at their "cool" cousin and his pants that he didnt run his mouth the rest of the day and I think he borrowed a belt for the rest of the afternoon.  I havent seen him in baggy pants since!

[Frickman]

Wow, I didn't expect a response like this. Thanks for all the ideas. I might look into some kind of uniform. The one difficulty with that is we use alot of seasonal and part-time help, but we'd figger it all out. I never thought of band-aids over tattoos. Some guys we have had in the past would look like they got run over by a bush hog though, they had so many tattoos.

Years ago, when the society was different, things were alot easier. People knew what was appropriate and dressed that way. We never really had a problem with this until about ten years ago. I know that many of the jobs in a sawmill are entry-level, and I don't expect anyone to work as a lumber stacker for an entire career. But if they don't show any pride in themselves or their work, how are they going to advance in our industry or another?

I'll share a little story here about a former employee. I hired what seemed to a decent young man on Friday, he was to start Monday. He was a little on the rebellious side but I thought I'd give him a chance. Monday morning he comes to work with the brightest green hair you'd ever seen, and black and white painted fingernails. I told the guys to push him a little, and see how he held up. By Wednesday he asked for his pay and I haven't seen him since.

[oldsaw]

I was in a Target store a couple of months a ago and the girl in the next lane was pierced through her eyebrows multiple times, her nose and lips...ditto.  The first thought through my head was that she was LUCKY to have a job, but that I would have never hired her to be in public sight.  She had decided to limit her potential in the world.

A few years ago I went to a bar with "dancing girls" at the request of a friend of mine.  With all the ink and metal, on top of more silicone than you would see in a Home Depot, I was unimpressed.  I guess I AM too old.  I like the REAL stuff.

[Pete J]

I guess I'll pipe in with my .02

I guess I'm in the middle as with most things in life. Everything in moderation. I wouldn't even think of getting a tattoo. That said, my high school friend owns one of the biggest tattoo studios in CT. Friends of mine got little accent tattoos on their ankles and stuff. I accept that.

If you look like a walking billboard for a heavy metal band, I'd think you might be looking for a little more attention than most. I'd look the other way and find someone else. Within legal guidelines of course.

[Percy]

I dunno.....
Im leaning toward Furby/Patty on this one. I DEMAND safety in whatever Warren Is wearing but some days the kid is working so hard he is in a sweat soaked sawdust covered T shert  at slightly above freezing and probably looks the way some of you find offensive. By mid day, I dont look much better(this is millwork).Tough on clothes.  I shower when I get home, sometimes on the way home , I go buy a sixpack or get milk for Cathy.  Most people are friendly regardless of my appearance, but there are some who figure I shouldnt be there lookin like that......most wouldnt last 5 miniutes  at the mill workin beside Warren. I dont look down on them(heh) pink handed, high steppin panty waists :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Buzz-sawyer]

Bunch of hosers , heh? Bang on Percy 8) 8) 8)

[Andy Henriksen]

This is an interesting topic.  Certainly a neat worker appearance can increase sales.  And that's what it's all about.  However, I would just implore you folks to not rush to judgement about people based on the way they choose to look.  Comments equating piercings or tatoos to not respecting themselves are, well, very ignorant.  Different people find different appearances to be attractive.  If you are out of touch with a particular style it doesn't mean the people are self loathing or whatever.  They just happen to think it's cool (whether or not it is).  Just like you wouldn't want to be judged for your bad comb-over, or beer belly, or whatever narrow-minded "kids" find offensive about older people, maybe you shouldn't pass judgement on them.   You may have lost a great worker in that green haired kid.  Perhaps informing him that his appearance was inappropriate and making him change it would have been a better approach to condoning peer harassment.

I work in a very public setting, where my appearance is important, so I understand all of this, but as a 30 year old, I feel like I can relate to both the rebellious youth and the stodgy oldster mentality.   Just remember that as youths or 20somethings, we all looked stupid to someone older. 

So that is why a Dress Policy is good.  It'll take away the built in prejudice that your clients have and that YOU also have.  In the meantime, you should work on eliminating that prejudice within yourself.

Note that I am replying to several people here in general, not any one in specific.   

[Buzz-sawyer]

Hey Andy
Take a look at the hippie topic on the general board.....the people you are adressing are likely in there somewhere.....
I see it like this standards of social acceptability are determined by the customs of the day, and the perception of RESPECTABILITY..........In this life ya gotta play the game........like the little kid told to sit down in church, he does it with a angry expression, and says, "I am sitting on the outside but standing on the inside!"

[Minnesota_boy]

I'm a different perspective in person.  I work alone.  I am the company.  When I arrive at the job site to meet the person hiring me, I try to be right on the time I said I would be there and I dress neatly.  First impressions are important as that is all the customer has to go on other than what someone told them.  The clothes I wear are not fancy, but neither are they a mess unless I am going from one job to the next without a chance to clean up, and the customers understand that sawing gets you sweaty and covered with sawdust.  No matter what, the shirt and pants are not full of holes, even if I have to change in my truck alongside the road to make it so.

After I get set up and have the order taken, I dress for the job I'm doing, from coverall to shorts with no shirt if that is what it takes to be able to keep working.  From that point on, the customer will judge me by the work I do, not how I look while I'm doing the work.  When I finish the job and go to present the bill, I again try to get a bit cleaner and put on a shirt and pants without holes to leave them with the impression that I want to be professional.  So far it seems to work for me.

I'd never hire someone who wants to show up in those baggy pants and with all the piercings, because their appearance makes a statement about my company.  What my customers want to see is what I want to see.  I send out work when I get overloaded but there are other sawyers that never get work sent to them as I don't want my customers to end up dissapointed with the job they do and look back at who recommended them.

[maple flats]

As for tattos, I have 4 grown kids, 2 girls with tattos and 2 boys without. Go figure. I don't either (nor does their mother). I have never been one to dress up when working in private BUT as soon as I am working in front of J.Q.Public I like a degree of neatness. Can't stand these kids who dress and decorate themselves such that you know they are only trying to look like freaks. Anytime you meet a person and the only thing you see is metal sticking thru and/or out of what must truly be outright uncomfortable places I leave. Can't stand it.
As for dress codes, when I had my last business I required that clothes be neat and clean and not something that would draw attention because of inappropriateness. We did have company tee shirts with our name on them and med weight jackets with names as well. For cold weather we used 2 layers of the med weight, and I still do this today on my own. Thirtyfive years ago I did the hiring for a retail store and would not have hired many of the types you see out there today. :D :D .
One of my jobs now is a school bus driver and this past week one of the girls got on the bus with purpleish blue hair. Really looked like a freak!

[DanG]

I guess it's all in how ya use what ya got.  Some of you might have noticed that my personal appearance seems a bit unkempt, whatever that means.  It's mostly that way because I don't like to shave, and I am too cheap to pay a barber.  It seem's, however, to be working to my advantage, most of the time.  People hold doors for me and call me "Sir", and Boy Scouts rush to help me across the street. ;D  The biggest bonus comes, though, when someone can't remember my name.  They say, "You know, that OLD man with the white beard that cuts the pretty lumber."  They seem to percieve that, since I appear to be old, and I toss around some facts that I've learned here on the Forum, I must be the expert.  It may be a bit fraudulent, but it works for me! ;D

[Mark M]

DanG - I was thinking about getting my nipples pierced but now I'm having second thoughts.

We have a young girl at work who just started recently. She is a good worker but her shirts are a little short (like some of mine but for a different reason). I solved the problem by getting her some uniform shirts, they only cost us a couple bucks a week and add a bit of class. Like someone else suggested you might want to provide shirts, coveralls, etc. and then state your expectations.

The old-man look works for me too. I'm only 50 and keep getting asked if I want the "senior" discount.

[Doc]

In respect to some of this I have been on oboth ends of this spectrum.

I have a tatoo (easily hidden under a short sleeved shirt), in the summer I shave my head bald (haev nothing left to speak of on top anyway), had long hair in my youth and now when I have hair I choose to keep it very short. I don't care for all the hardware either, and have none.

In the 60's and 70's it was long hair. In the 80's the hair was still there with the girls trying to see if they could hit the tops of doorways as they passed through them. The ninties brought alot of changes of both long and short hair, baggy jeans (hanging down to the knees in some cases.....funny), and hardware.

If you are not impressed withthe way your employees look to your customers, then you can do as has been suggested and invest in t-shirts and caps, or uniforms (and pay for half the rental fee). You have more control than you realize, but you have to figure out which way you want to go.

Depending on how much outside work you do (offsite), the t shirts might not be a bad idea. Big logo on the back and a small one on the front is great advertising. Invesst in enough per employee that they have some extras to wear when not at work, and have a spare for the summer heat (nothing sucks more than a nasty stinky shirt stuck to your back all day.....I take a spare when outside doing anything away from the house).

You have options. You do not have to worry about legals per se. You do have to worry about running off some of your help if you force them to change to drastically the way they dress. Those may be good ridance though...I don't know. If they have there rear hanging out of the back then talk to them about it. If this is something you think you could handle in a morning meeting, adn give them a vote them try that. Give them the option of uniforms or t shirts. Personally, I have preferred uniforms over the years just ot save the hassles of washing the gear.

Doc

[Tom]

A fellow working for himself can make his own rules.  I have mine and shaving isn't one of them.  Distinguishing looks can help a business if they aren't anti-society.

I'm afraid that i have to draw the line with piercings and obvious tattoos.  Both of these ornamental features are in the category of "anti-establishment", challenges to authority, and are generally associated with rowdiness, alcoholism, drugs, and anti-society.   You see this type of thing mostly in prisons where most are saying "I'm tough"; or in urban gangs where they are trying to prove membership in a closed group.  Without considering the permanence, many, other-wise, social elites ruin their chances at acceptance by the upper echelons of business by ornamenting themselves so brazenly that they can't avoid public exposure.

It's the boldly disfiguring public exposure that saddens me.  It puts the responsibility of success on the employer rather than the employee. It can act as an excuse to cover up ones inability to perform.  It's an "in-your-face" challenge to business owners daring them to cull for a cleaner image.  It's an indication that the person is trouble on the hoof.  Standing next to a clean cut individual with the same qualifications, they lose.

A company has every right to present itself in a socially acceptable way, approved of by the management.  It's the same as making a decision on what the company logo will look like and what color to paint the building.  

If a person has ornamented himself in this way and is rejected by a portion of society that could offer him success, he has no argument, in my opinion.

My Uncle was a Marine in WWII and Korea.  He had himself tattooed on his arms and chest.  Many times he told me, "I wish I had never done it".

The new, sloppy dress costumes are just a milder form of the same "nose-thumbing".  The sad thing is that there are so many adults who condone this behavior by young America without realizing that they are part of the cause of the rebellious attitudes. 

OK.  It's just my opinion, and I'm an Old Fogy.  But I've seen the results of being surrounded by people who wouldn't follow the rules and in critical times wouldn't take orders, when their peers were depending upon them.

[asy]

This is a great thread...  I think I'll print it out for required reading when my kids get older...

We went shopping today, and in the mall it was amazing how many girls of between 14-17 were walking around with these skirts that looked as though they'd just pulled their headband down..   >:(

They have these tiny little tops on, not hiding much, and tiny little skirts on. Andrew hates it because he finds it embarrassing.

I must say, when a girl walks past wearing that, you can't help but look. I guess that's what they are after, but they are BABIES!!! :(

I saw one little girl, about the same age as my daughter (8 ) wearing full makeup, with eye shadow, and lipstick on, in the store with her mum... 

I must say I wondered what she'd look like in 10 years time...

I think this all goes toward a lessenning of respect for elders.

I remember when I was pregnant 12 years ago (gosh was it THAT long ago!) and I had to ride the train into town to work, I'd get on the train to go home exhausted. Invariably the seats would be taken up with school kids, and I just was not able to stand up for long, much less on a moving train.

I was so tired this one day, and there were these two boys, about 14 or 15yo and I was standing next to them. They were laughing and joking around, and saw me, but didn't move. So I politely asked one of them whether he could stand so I could sit. He said "No, I paid for my seat". I replied "Well, it's just common curteousy, I stood for my elders when I was your age (actually, I still do). He said, well, I'm not.  So I replied, Well, I'm sorry, but I can't stand up, so you have two options. You get up, or I sit on your knee (and started moving into a sitting position). Never seen a kid move so fast. Of course he swore at me, but I didn't care by that stage.

asy :D

[Rod]

appearance is everthing.Like cloths,a mans truck,etc etc.Look at all the stuff women have to have for their appearance..Also the Just like the  president needs to be white,married and a christian to be the president of the USA.

I might be a little predijust about how someone looks.But not any more then anyone else.

[Quartlow]

Depending on what I'm doing depends on what I wear. Like right now , I going to be working on the truck toady so its a pair of well worn grease stained pants and an old sweatshirt.  When I'm working in the wood shop it's less stained pants :D Hey I'm a messy worker what can I say.

Now while I'm driving truck I wear dark Khakis and button shirts usually uniform style shirts which I have plenty of. Not trendy but clean.  The appearance of some truck drivers today is disgusting and makes me ashamed to tell anyone that yes I have been a truck driver and will be one again. There is no reason to show up at a customers dressed ragged and smelling like the hogs. I was at one receiver in NYC once delivering apples, driver came in smelled like he hadn't showered in 2 weeks. The receiver tossed him out and told him not to come back till he had showered and smelled better :D :D

Any time I'm going to a craft show or going to meet with someone potential to buy the thing that come out of the wood shop its dress slacks and shirt.

Beware there can be some legalities involved. Some states if you require an employee to where a uniform you have to provide it.

Now as for dress codes. when I worked for RSC in the rental industry we wore uniforms, no jewelry was allowed and no hair on the collar. Mostly for safety reasons. Watches where allowed but could not have a metal band, a lot of you have seen what happens when you dead short a battery imagine it on wrist  If you came to work with out a shirt tucked in or wearing jewelry you got a written warning and had to correct the problem, second time you got another written warning third time you got sent home for 3 days.  The three days where all ways Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday wouldn't want to give you a 5 day weekend  :D :D

The cycle was repeated once, if you got written up 3 more times you where terminated.

It's pretty simple, it's your company and within reason you can set the standards, employees can either comply or work else where. Some folks don't care what your appearance is as long as the job gets done and gets done right for a fair price, but your going to get more jobs because some people do judge a company on its appearance. Some of us understand that a dirty job is going to lead to dirty employees but a lot of folks don't realize that.

[Tom]

I also agree that image is important, though not "everything". 

Prejudice is a description that falls outside of the scope of this thread.  Prejudice is generally considered to be a trait that is outside of a persons ability to control it.  That's why the U.S.A. has gone through "eye-tooth-pulling" efforts to eliminate discrimination based on prejudice.  The rules are that we are not to discriminate against any person because of race, color, creed, religion, national origin, sex, age, marital status or disability.  Those are things, generally, as human beings that we can't change.

The traits that we are discussing, I think, have to do with "Personal" choice. They are those things that an individual can make a decision upon as to which fork in the road he wants to take.   These are things, that as a member of a society, one must take personal responsibility

We, as the U.S.A., lists the rules; and we, as citizens, are expected to comply with them.

A company/business owner has rights to make rules as to how his company is run and presented to his customers also, as long as the rules don't run a-foul of the Governments definition of Civil Rights and Human Rights.

[Andy Henriksen]

...piercings and obvious tattoos.  Both of these ornamental features are in the category of "anti-establishment", challenges to authority, and are generally associated with rowdiness, alcoholism, drugs, and anti-society.   You see this type of thing mostly in prisons where most are saying "I'm tough"; or in urban gangs where they are trying to prove membership in a closed group.  

Tom, I respect your opinions and contributions on this board immensely, but you are SO far out of reality with this comment.  Maybe, looking back 50+ years there may have been some truth to your statement, but in todays world, these things are done for ornament, because the people like them.  Period.   

Also, Prejudice, as defined by my dictionary, is 1. a preconcieved judgement or opinion, 2. an adverse opinion or leaning formed without grounds or before sufficient knowledge.  The word can and does still have meaning outside of the legal definition of it that you site, and is definately applicable to this situation.  Just because you may not be sexist, or racist, or classist, or antisemitic, or another widely known discrimination, doesn't mean you don't have prejudices.  I know I do, and discussions like this help me to recognize that, and remind me to try to correct it within myself.

All that being said, I STILL agree that you should look tidy and clean on the job, and the employer has every right to enforce a dress code. 

[pigman]

Andy,
You may be right why some people use  tattoos and piercings, but Tom is also right on how most of us over thirty perceive them. We may be prejudiced but that is how we feel.
Bob