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Author Topic: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven  (Read 1392 times)

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Offline Timberjack5

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Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« on: August 28, 2020, 01:20:29 AM »
 Some of you that have been following my threads know that I have a few big projects about to start.
1 / Logging winch on tractor to skidder conversion.
2 /  Harvester parts out to firewood processing mill.
However while all thatís underway I have been offered a small firewood supply contact that is fairly lucrative, Iíve said yes and shook hands to deliver the first load in 2 weeks time. I already pretty flat out as Iím building a shed for a client which pays the final 20% balance on a Cat D6D dozer plus Iíve got a few things happening with my cattle and Iím starting  a few colts for another client. While Iím doing this over the next month there is not a lot of income coming in, therefore the firewood is a foot in the door to a new business that Iím getting involved in plus itís cash now. My mate has a resort and his firewood supplier has retired, he wants me to bag it in 20kg ( 44 pound ) bags already split, it works out to 350 per tonne in this way and he sells it to the people who camp or  stay in his cabins on his property. He goes through about 100 bags a week. He sells it for just over double what I get but Iím more than happy with the rate, good luck to him.
Anyway my other buddy has a lot of tree tops from where it was logged for mill logs a few years ago, Iíll be able to go in just with a chainsaw but I need to build a splitter real quick from what I already have here.  Iíve got
* plenty of I beam 7 x3 -1/2 inch and 8x4 inch medium weight.
* cutting edge off big road grader blade
* assorted heavy steel
* enough inch and 1/4 plate to make a heavy base plate.
* tractor with 20 gallon per minute flow 2610 psi
* best condition cylinder is inch and 1/4 rod with 12 inch stroke complete with end pins.
* another cylinder that needs a bit of a tidy up is inch and 1/4 rod 2 foot stroke.
*Then I do have a bigger one 2 and 1/2 inch rod x 2 and 1/2 feet stroke.
All above cylinders are dual acting.
* 2 spool valve bank dual acting.
Got great welding gear up to 600amps, mig, tig and stick, got 100 tonne punch and shear, oxy / lpg cutting, carbon arc gouging gear. Press drill.
Lot of experience in heavy fabrication / welding / pressure welding.
Iím thinking a vertical splitter ( 3pl hitch ) as I can improve it on the fly, Iíve got a tip truck and some hay elevators that I might be able to convert for wood. Hoping to keep manual lifting to a minimum as the show improves.
Most thing that I need help with is working out the splitting force of tractor with available cylinders, also hoping to build something where Iím not waiting all day for the cylinder to come down to the block of wood, Iíve done a bit with hydraulics, replaced a few pumps on tractors, cleaned a few blocked screens, made a bypass and gone external flow on tractor, things like that but I donít know how to work out the maths on these cylinders against the flow rate apart from hooking it all up, building it on trail and error but I havenít got time to make a mistake. Iím not saying I couldnít work it out and teach myself with the internet resources however Iím busy and in a hurry, It makes a lot more sense to ask as there are people here who have a lot more experience. Please be mindful that Iím dealing with Australian Hardwood and this stuff is tough ( iron bark ) and I need to come up with the best tonnage splitting force possible with that tractor specs plus that splitter steel work needs to be tough. Iíve come to realise there are some very clever people on this forum in the short time that I have been a part of it and I will be certainly greatful for any advice, I can post photos as I build what you guys lead me into.
Kindest regards
Timberjack5

Offline Satamax

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2020, 01:51:55 AM »
By any chance, do you have an elevator mast? That would be the fastest way to build a splitter i think. Or heavy equipment stabilizers for example.

For the hydraulics, you need to know your tractor's flow in liters per minute, or GPM. And pressure.

For the cylinders, it's easy, you take the tape measure, better if you have a taylor's one. Measure the circumference of the cylinder, divide that by pi. That gives you the diameter, substract 1cm, or thereabouts for the piston's diameter.

Then for the surface PIxR≤ easy.

Surface by pressure gives you tonnage.

Surface x length (travel) , in cm, gives you volume, in CC,

Then flow divided by volume gives you the time it takes   to open or retract the cylinder.

HTH.

Myself, in a real hurry, i would go rotary or inertial. 







French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2020, 01:59:33 AM »
Thanks Satamax, Iím not sure what an elevator last is ?
I do have a 9 tonne ( 20,000 pound) gvm or fully loaded weight,  truck that has rear stabilisers for the cherry picker man basket set up. Happy to wreck that part of truck if thatís what you are taliking about.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2020, 02:01:36 AM »
Ok Satamax cheers mate

Offline Satamax

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2020, 02:01:51 AM »
Mast, i was correcting as you were posting. 



A conical wood screw is fast too. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2020, 02:06:00 AM »
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2020, 07:26:16 AM »
Copy powersplit international.

Offline 62oliver

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2020, 07:30:28 AM »
What is the barrel diameter of your cylinders? I put a 4" X 24" on mine and find it a good combination of speed and splitting force. However the wood I am usually splitting is not terribly hard to split.
Also re: the grader cutting edge, I was going to make my wedge out of that too (I'm assuming that's what you have in mind). I was convinced by the guys on here that it was not needed as that cutting edge is not very friendly to work with. I ended up just making a wedge out of a 12" x 12" x 1" piece of plate. Took about an hour with a 7" grinder and an aggressive disc. Has been great and if needed it is easy to touch up.
Husqvarna 266, Case 90xt, JD310C, TJ240E, 02 Duramax

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2020, 07:47:28 AM »
Lot of very good ideas here fellas. 62Oliver, Iím hearing you on the wedge, Iíll scrap the cutting edge idea, I was already thinking along your lines so yes Iíll run with that. What sort of tractor are you running that off, if itís a tractor or what is your pressure and flow if you know it .
Satamax the rotary looks good too. 
Moodna I had a look at the power split inter, very nice.

Offline Haleiwa

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2020, 07:57:25 AM »
If you have to deliver in bags, bagging will take longer than splitting if you split onto a pile.  Make a horizontal frame high enough that the splitter will push the wood over the top of the bag (you have to make arms to hold the bag in position).  That way you only have to lift it one time and gravity will fill the bag.  Use the biggest cylinder and make a wedge on each end so that you can split in both directions. The ram will have to slide along a track with the cylinder rod underneath it. If you have help, one can feed the splitter while the other pulls away the full bags and slides in the empty ones.
Socialism is people pretending to work while the government pretends to pay them.  Mike Huckabee

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2020, 08:13:22 AM »
Surplus center.com has a drp down tab. Click technical help then hydraulic then calculators.  

I think a box wedge splitter with dragback with a hyd lift ramp is the way to go for very hard stuff. Or very large staff.  Its gonna limit the load to about 3 cuts per stroke instead of say 8 or more.  With force limited you dont need to designed for rare very high pressure situations.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2020, 08:45:05 AM »
Are u hand cutting the blocks with a chainsaw?
Revelation 3:20

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2020, 09:01:11 AM »
Haleiwa
Yes I agree with the bag loading, like the double acting, yes wife can help on the less heavy tasks.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2020, 09:02:17 AM »
Mike, yes Iíll be cutting with a chainsaw initially until I can get one of these circular saws up and running.

Offline 62oliver

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2020, 09:11:01 AM »
Lot of very good ideas here fellas. 62Oliver, Iím hearing you on the wedge, Iíll scrap the cutting edge idea, I was already thinking along your lines so yes Iíll run with that. What sort of tractor are you running that off, if itís a tractor or what is your pressure and flow if you know it .
 

I usually run it off the aux hydraulics on my Case 90xt skid steer, think flow might be about 16-20 GPM? Not sure. Sometimes I hook it to the John Deere 310C, the splitter runs a little faster on that.
Husqvarna 266, Case 90xt, JD310C, TJ240E, 02 Duramax

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2020, 09:36:35 AM »
I'm thinking you are going to be splitting stuff fairly small for bagged campfire wood so probably lots of re- splitting which makes me think that a box wedge or vertical splitter would fit best.






The issues with running a splitter off of a tractor hydraulics is in order to get the maximum flow rates you have to run the tractor at the rated speed which seem wasteful for splitting wood I use my tractor splitter but only run at a bit over Ĺ throttle, it is slow but I'm just splitting for myself where a splitter like my brother has with it's own engine (its only 5.5 hp) and a two stage pump is way faster and it frees up the tractor to move logs and pallets around.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2020, 11:13:13 AM »
Here is a compilation of home made box wedges mostly with dragback.  I would watch it a few times to see what suits your iron pile.  We can worry about the hydraulics once you nail down the design a bit.  





Revelation 3:20

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2020, 04:13:12 PM »
Thanks Hilltop
ďThe issues with running a splitter off of a tractor hydraulics is in order to get the maximum flow rates you have to run the tractor at the rated speed which seem wasteful for splitting wood I use my tractor splitter but only run at a bit over Ĺ throttle, it is slow but I'm just splitting for myself where a splitter like my brother has with it's own engine (its only 5.5 hp) and a two stage pump is way faster and it frees up the tractor to move logs and pallets aroundĒ

Yes I catching on to this after studying flow rates a bit. Unless I had some massive hydraulic pump running off the pto there seems to be a waste of power I agree

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2020, 06:21:25 PM »
You can size the pump for a lower speed operation or rig up a pulley to overdrive so the tractor can run lower rpm. The steady state ag governors should be pretty happy to fuel up hard and maintain rpm any time load drags it down.  
Revelation 3:20

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2020, 04:43:41 PM »
Thanks for the input Mike, Iím in the thinking process at the moment, plus Iím going over my bits on the farm, thinking of stuff that I havenít seen for a while thatís laying in the grass, you fellas have given me serious education and Iím processing thought atm.


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