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Author Topic: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven  (Read 1393 times)

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Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2020, 07:16:32 PM »
There were some vertical PTO splitters built around here 40 years ago, I still see one once in a while. They were made with a chain and sprocket to speed the pump up and a foot pedal to control the ram, I believe they used a chain and sprocket to step up the speed so there was very little side load on the pump shaft compared to belts as most pumps are not designed for side load. Another option would be to use a jack shaft with 2 mounted bearings and a flexible coupling or a pump designed for a PTO.

To design one I would start with the available horsepower of your tractor at the rpm you want to run it and select a pump size to suit those specs. I would also be tempted to use a splitter type 2 stage pump and over size it a bit so it would not have to spin so fast to get the desired flow rate / ram cycle time.

Another thought is you will have the tractor hydraulics available to you for running other things like a block lift and conveyer.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2020, 10:41:44 PM »
Thanks Hilltop, youíve brought up some very good points and itís all in alliance with where my thinking is going.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2020, 10:51:26 PM »
Update Plan :
Next weekend we are going to cut a truck load of blocks with chainsaw, bring them back home. There is a hire splitter available which is a very good Australian built machine. Iíve booked it to hire a few weekends away. I can pick it up late Friday n drop back early Monday and they will charge just a day rate. The machine costs $10,000 to buy new and is much like the power split International that Moodna recommended. A conveyor on a new one is an extra $4000. 
https://www.superaxe.com.au/superaxe-ws3150/
The hire model doesnít have the conveyor but does have the 13hp upgrade Honda that is required for conveyor model. It has a 2 speed pump. Anyway it will get me out of trouble while creating some dollars to turn over plus it gives me a chance to try a good quality model while I decide what Iím building ( takes the pressure off a bit )
Iíll make sure Iíve got blocks and bags ready to maximise the hire time.

Offline Satamax

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #23 on: August 30, 2020, 03:59:55 AM »
That's a sensible option i think. 

French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2020, 04:55:21 AM »
Thanks Satamax

Offline Satamax

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2020, 06:04:16 AM »
Well, as i explained before. I love building stuff. but it takes time, and doesn't bring money. So i went with a bought combi splitter. And did the same with the sawmill. After procrastinating for years on my build. I still have one like that, the "skidder" But that one i want to finish. 
French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2020, 07:11:27 AM »
Yeah Iím hearing you, coming up with the concept is the easy part. Getting it built thatís another issue. What is your skidder project Satamax?

Offline Satamax

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French CD4 sawmill. Latil TL 73. Self moving hydraulic crane. Iveco daily 4x4 lwb dead as of 06/2020. Replaced by a Brimont TL80 CSA.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2020, 08:28:41 AM »
Tj- look over the rental machine and particularly the conveyor drive pretty closely.   take pictures of the dataplates on any pumps, gearboxes, engine, valves etc so you can later lookup what cu.in./rev, what hp, gear ratio, gpm etc they were.. and also at hose sizes and cylinder diameter to have a baseline of component sizes and their performance.  A video of a few operation cycles will make it easier to stopwatch out the speeds later so you can say 'well these number will give me about an 9 second cycle' or whatever.



One possible error with using a single engine with 2 stage pump for the splitter and the conveyor, is that if the conveyor is hydraulic driven its pressure demands may kick out the high flow stage often or even all the time which totally defeats the point of a 2 stage pump.  Why pay for the fast side of the pump if the conveyor always forces it to stay in low gear?



 If the conveyor were a chain rather than belt unit and is permanently integrated to the splitter, It would be better to mount the engine where it could run a right angle gear box reducer for the conveyor drive sprocket, (or a few reducer pulleys) by chain (or vee belt) off the engine mechanically to avoid hydraulic on the conveyor.  It runs all the time and hydraulics always has a 20-30% efficiency loss to heat.  


If the hydraulic pump is only for the processor and you dont have the conveyors' extra heat load on your fluid to deal with, your fuel and engine will last longer.  13hp motors have enough shaft to stack several pulleys or sprockets, or a pulley and a lovejoy so you can do mechanical conveyor plus hydraulic pump from same engine if you plan it out right from the start.


You probably know that a belt conveyor must run the drive pulley at the top so most of those use hydraulic motors.  Bottom driven conveyors must have a positive toothed engagement of some sort to prevent slippage.   But it beats climbing a ladder to pullstart or fill the tank!


If youre building a big power hotrod splitter, 2 stage pumps of the gpm youd be wanting really arent out there but it is easy enough to build one with a check valve, relief valve and some tee fittings.  It can be two independant pumps or one tandem sectional pump with a big side and a small side.  All youre doing is combining flows of two gearsets and at a predetermined pressure, dumping the flow of the big pair back to tank.  Its like downshifting a two speed rearend for the little engine to scream its way up the big hill at a snail's pace.  The bright side of making your own is not only more flow but more adjustability.  The factory 2stage pumps only got up to about 1.8 cubic inch per revolution and with bypass regulators limited to about 900 psi.  This is sized well for say 18-24 hp.  

If you were building around a 74hp kubota it would leave a lot of performance out.  Would make more sense to use maybe a 3cu.in/rev big pump and say a 1.0cu.in/rev small pump with an 1800 psi kickout so that it really rams all but the very gnarliest wood right through at top speed.  The relief valve is adjusted so that just before the engine lugs out the black smoke, your poppet opens and dumps the big pump flow back to tank.  Now youre only turning the small pump and your engine hums on nice n smooth.  Theyll call it an unloader valve but its just a plain ol adjustable relief valve used to "unload" the big pump which is trying to stall the engine out


I just made up ballpark numbers without looking at any calcs but the point is high performance systems will utilize  components all matched up to maximize what every other component has to offer.


Revelation 3:20

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2020, 02:55:43 PM »
Satamax I reckon youíre onto a good thing there with that skidder for a very reasonable budget.

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2020, 02:58:33 PM »
Thanks Mike, thatís very informative. Iíll read that a few more times.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2020, 10:22:39 PM »
Well, fwiw.. If yer gonna make a splitter ya might as well make it buck logs too.  Any old log trough with some i beams for a dead deck will work.. Even slit pipe or 55g drums could work for the trough.  At the end of it just put a big saw on a pivot.  One hole thru the bar and walla.  Its not great but a chainsaw simplifies so much about a processor.






Just a bolt through a pipe nipple and a thick backup washer to keep things square.






You can advance the log with a cheap winch and a hook hammered into the far end.    Just a quick and dirty machine to get started and make some money for the cadillac build.
Revelation 3:20

Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2020, 06:23:58 AM »
Thanks Mike, yeah itís a good fast option. I appreciate the photos mate.

Thanks also to everyone who has posted on this thread, itís been a big help in steering me in the right direction.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2020, 07:35:46 AM »
 What Mike showed is what I did on my build yrs ago only I used a hay elevator and tack welded 3/16 flat plate to the chain trough and the outside rails. I also turned the elevator chain around to get the teeth to pull the log better. then I mounted above a splitter that I built a table around splitter wedge. I also used the hay elevator as a split pieces elevator for a while.
 I can't find the machine that mounts onto a bobcat that picks up a log has hydraulics to move the log forward an a hydraulic chainsaw to cut the block off then it drops into a chute that splits the block. You use the bobcat to put the unit over a truck side board or anywhere you want the pieces to go. You could set up your combine the same way.
 Maybe one of our F F members has a video of the machine I wrote of.
Ed K

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2020, 07:51:38 AM »
Ed those are the halverson processors.


Got any pics of yours?  How well did the hay conveyor work?  Was it a single strand or a H chain?
Revelation 3:20

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2020, 09:21:12 AM »
 I looked for pictures but can't find any that show it. It was a single strand type of chain. It worked good I put a handle on the large belt pulley to move the log forward.

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2020, 01:21:43 PM »
I have always thought theses look efficient. (edit: for large wood)


Offline Timberjack5

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2020, 02:29:24 PM »
Ed and Mike, itís a good idea to use the hay elevator with the pivot chainsaw. I didnít want to use my hay elevator as I recently rebuilt it, itís light duty and I use it for hay. Yesterday I stumbled across a home build old hay elevator that is on the heavy duty side so I bought it for $100 as itís just right for the job.
Ed, the idea about setting up a header front log grab processor like a monster halverston is certainly a grand idea.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2020, 03:14:36 PM »
Im building a conveyor from regular 5/16 chain using an i beam right now actually. Just ordered takeup bearings from surplus center for it.

This has some clever features and the same type of conveyor. 

Revelation 3:20

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Forum designed Block splitter - Fast build, tractor driven
« Reply #39 on: September 03, 2020, 08:07:20 PM »
Firewood conveyer comments: always pull from the top. If chain go single steel '78' chain down the middle. Buy or make 7 or more tooth 2.609 pitch sprockets. These can be welded in the middle of shaft and supported by 2 pillow block bearings at least 1 1/2" bore. Or [more $] get split babbit blocks and drop the sprocket/ shaft assemblies in. Sides of conveyer should be flared so it will spill rather than jam. These are methods that have and are working for me.                  P.S. those sprockets can be made from 1" plate with a cutting torch.


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