What about this tractor deal

[livemusic]

Would love input on this.  I found this package for sale...

tractor - Kubota L3560HST (no cab)
front end loader - Kubota LA805
rotary cutter - Land Pride RCR1872
hay spear - Land Pride BS20
trailer - unknown brand, 20 ft, dual 3500 lb axles
tires - R4 type (don't know if has ballast)

All bought new fall of 2019, I think all are 2019 models. Has only 15 hours on it. The young man found he doesn't use it as much as he thought he would and his wife is now pregnant, so, is selling. Was asking $29k, we settled for $27k. It has a Titan quick hitch gizmo on back. All of this looks to be in pristine condition via pictures with only 15 hours on it and tractor has been kept under a shed.

I need a tractor for...
bush hog a 7 acre pasture
occasional dirt work at home lawn, garden and 50-acre woodlot
tree work at woodlot (firewood and whatnot)
leveling garden (will buy a box blade)
moving stuff now and then with FEL

Supposedly has 2-yr bumper-to-bumper warranty and a 6-yr warranty on motor/powertrain and is supposedly transferable.

Do you think this is a good deal? A good tractor and package?

Me and brother will test drive this package.

He financed through Kubota and owes $29k on it. I am not sure but that probably does not include the trailer, he bought at least that from another place of business, a trailer dealer. If I give him a cashiers check and get title to the trailer, am I good to go, just drive it all away? Or should I pay off the Kubota loan and get all that cleared up? I don't know why I should care that he financed it but please advise if I should! I mean, if he hadn't told me, I would not know he has a loan. Long as I give him the money we agreed on, isn't that enough?

I wonder if I will be able to use the hay spear like forks to move logs?

My pasture is on land I bought a few years ago and it has not been cut in probably 5-6 years. It is THICK with fescue grass, briars, tall weeds. In spots has sweet gum and oak saplings about 2-3 inches diameter but I can whack those with my Husky brush cutter if the bush hog won't handle it. I suppose I will need to mow this twice, at least! It's so thick, hard to walk through.

Thanks for advice, will be first tractor I've had since growing up on the farm. My brother will also use it, he's fired up. But I'd like to know this is a good deal, there's lots of tractors for sale.

[btulloh]

Sounds like good deal on a new tractor to me.

Never tried hay tines for logs. I’m sure they’ll do something, but probably awkward. Forks are pretty cheap. 

[sawguy21]

You make your check payable to him and the lender, he then needs to arrange for the title to be released. If you pay him only and he disappears the bailiff will show up looking for the tractor and you will be stuck with trying to recover your money. I almost lost a vehicle that way. Sounds like a fair price, I had the use of a Kubota HST which was a fine machine. You will want forks with a thumb for logs

[mike_belben]

Yeah, talk to kubota finance and make sure that the loan can be paid off early and the lien removed and title sent to you.  


If he stiffs kubota the repo man is coming for you. Dont take his word for it. Thats too much temptation for some people. 

[GAB]

If the owner does not pay off the loan who will be out a tractor and other goodies when they repossess.
At a minimum the check should be made out to both the finance company and the owner and if possible, the finance company's loan info should be typed on the check.
As to the trailer the same applies and the title should state any lien holders.
Where I'm coming from is in 1982 I agreed to purchase a bulldozer from a fellow who told me the dozer was his free and clear.  At a coworkers suggestion the next day, I called the town clerks office where this seller lived and was told there was a lien which bank it was and the lien number.
The look on his face when I gave him the check spoke volumes.
GAB

[mike_belben]

Wow ya had a lucky intuition there. 

[livemusic]

You make your check payable to him and the lender, he then needs to arrange for the title to be released. If you pay him only and he disappears the bailiff will show up looking for the tractor and you will be stuck with trying to recover your money. I almost lost a vehicle that way. Sounds like a fair price, I had the use of a Kubota HST which was a fine machine. You will want forks with a thumb for logs

He said he called Kubota and they said due to Covid, easiest/best way to do this is I do a bank wire to Kubota. Now, he says he owes $29k balance on loan. We agreed to a $27k price. I somehow need for him to pay the $2k before I wire the $27k!
I wonder if Kubota would somehow mail, email, fax me a paper showing loan payoff? Preferably email or fax since I would not be wanting to wait on the mail. I am sure they would send payoff papers to him, but, I, the buyer, need that as well!

[brianJ]

Id be tempted to leave a handful of those best oak seedlings now they have such a great start

[nativewolf]

I would just call Kubota and get a bid.  Why buy used when Kubota is offering 0%

[Southside]

You need to check for "UCC" filings on anything with a serial number on this deal. Kubota will definitely have one, and it's possible someone else has one too if he has a bad debt issue. 

For $27K, given the deal is already getting squirrelly, it would be money well spent to have an attorney do the filings checks.

[mike_belben]

I think this one may go sour.  If the loan is at his bank its a case of you going to the teller window together.  


Maybe you can go do the payoff together at the dealer he bought it from?  They likely set him up with the kubota finance.  


Unless he has $2k to walk in with, you might have to pay the whole 29 to get title.  It may require having him kick in some other toys to cover the 2k if he dont have it.  I would NOT hand him the money.  Id only hand it to his creditor face to face if i could walk out with clear title.  Im wonder if banks or attorneys have escrow systems for this.   

[Walnut Beast]

Find out the dealer where he bought it and talk to them

[Walnut Beast]

If you do a bank transfer to Kubota on the balance. I would also do a notarized written and signed receipt of the whole deal with whatever is included 

[Walnut Beast]

I would just call Kubota and get a bid.  Why buy used when Kubota is offering 0%

Because usually the dealer has a cash price and a finance price. My recent inquiry on a deal was 10,500 difference on cash price vs finance deal

[livemusic]

I would just call Kubota and get a bid.  Why buy used when Kubota is offering 0%

Because usually the dealer has a cash price and a finance price. My recent inquiry on a deal was 10,500 difference on cash price vs finance deal

You mean cash was $10,500 less?

Anyone think I could get close to this amount of money buying brand new? Just call various Kubota dealers or what would you do? (When I started looking at this deal, I searched the internet and found used prices for low hour equipment identical to this and seems to me, he would have paid quite a bit more than $27k. But he bought this before the crash.)

You would think that in this economic environment (near collapse!), they would be making some sweet deals like I did on my Nissan Titan truck in 2008. The sticker was $30,500 and I paid $18,500. Yep, you read that right. I need a new truck, too, but so far, I am not aware of truck dealers getting desperate like they were in 2008 to get rid of trucks.

[stavebuyer]

Most of the UCC stuff can be accessed on line these days.
2019 model he probably hasn't paid down much if any on the note and some of the deals are no money down finance deals at 0%. I'd get a dealer quote on the same package and if there is some savings on the used machine for the amount of money involved I would get an attorney to dot the I's and cross the T's to make sure all goes as promised.

Either way that is handy outfit to have.

[snowstorm]

i bought a truck yrs ago for the pay off. we both went to the bank i wrote the check to the bank and they sent the title to me. another time i bought a pickup . the guy hasn't made any payments in 3 months. told him i would pay just what he owed on it. he agreed. so i went to his bank with the paper work saying i wanted to pay it off. they were a lot less than pleasant to deal with. i did end up with it and it kept him from having a repo on his record

[Walnut Beast]

The 10,500 was on another machine not a Kubota 😂

[livemusic]

I have asked for bids from dealers today, got one so far. Based on this, the used package saves me about 21%. Not sure that used package price is a super deal seeing it's used, a year's warranty is gone and I have to go through the hassle of paying off a loan and dealing with an individual. The pluses of the used one are it's all ready to go, just drive away with it. I'd save $8k. The seller seems legit, has a good job (big city fireman) but you never know.

Thinking back to the distant past, getting a 21% discount on something used... not a great deal. What do you guys think, is this the way the market is now? Less discount for something barely used than in the old days?

[Woodfarmer]

I’d go with the used one, $8k is a lot of money 

[BargeMonkey]

Kubota is 0%, why hand over all the cash you've got, play with someone else's money. Nothing wrong with the sounds of the machine, I've been involved in some dirty repo deals loading iron as the cops show up, depends if that's the machine you want. Normally when we buy a deal I figure the additional stuff at 50% value or roll it in the deal, bought a track skidsteer with 4 attachments, guy knew he had a hard sell, I paid for 1 and got 4, sold the 2 i didnt want, it's all what your looking to buy. Warranty isnt a huge issue but are you ever doing your own wrench work ? 

[TroyC]

If you have a Rural King any where nearby check out their 39hp tractor. FEL, hydraulics, front bucket, lots of extras, about 22k. Made by TYM Tractor company in Korea that also makes some of the small Mahindras. I found a TYM 396 with grapple and bucket that I'm real happy with. Also, check for local TYM dealers. Solid machines.

[Southside]

Buddy of mine has a 55HP LS tractor, also made in S. Korea - at the same facility IH and New Holland are made - exact same machine, just different paint.  It is a very impressive little tractor, he used it Saturday to pick up 4x4 round bales behind me and bring them to the wrapper.  One with the FEL, the other with the 3 pt hitch, didn't grunt one bit.  

[Walnut Beast]

I have asked for bids from dealers today, got one so far. Based on this, the used package saves me about 21%. Not sure that used package price is a super deal seeing it's used, a year's warranty is gone and I have to go through the hassle of paying off a loan and dealing with an individual. The pluses of the used one are it's all ready to go, just drive away with it. I'd save $8k. The seller seems legit, has a good job (big city fireman) but you never know.

Thinking back to the distant past, getting a 21% discount on something used... not a great deal. What do you guys think, is this the way the market is now? Less discount for something barely used than in the old days?

Is the bid that you are getting at 0% financing included. You might want to look into the tractor SouthSide mentioned 

[mike_belben]

they must be pretty desperate to keep sales going if theyre lending for free. 

[livemusic]

The Kubota deal is 0 down and 0% for five years. To me, seems that they or the dealer should provide a discount to a cash buyer since they don't have to provide free financing. Time is money.

Whoever asked... I would do routine maintenance and easy fixes as far as maintenance goes. My brother and I. Neither is expert but we grew up on a farm.

[btulloh]

Like all deals, it comes down to your particular evaluation.  Is it the exact tractor you want?  Is the equipment package what you'd buy if you were making a deal with the dealer?  How does it stack up against dealer offers and other brands?  

IF it was what I was looking for, I'd like the $8k savings personally.  I don't consider the one year less warranty to be a big factor.  I wouldn't call that a lot of hours and I would still look at as a new tractor.  That's just me though.  I prefer to pay cash for something like this (cars too FWIW).  There's a case to be made for financing though, just depends on how you like to do things.

The details certainly have to be taken care of with Kubota finance and getting clear ownership.  I would think a call to Kubota Finance could help clear that up as to the best way to proceed.  Tractors aren't titled here, but there would be a UCC filing that has to be taken care of.  Kubota finance may even offer a way to take over payments on the existing loan, if that would be desirable.  Best to ask them about all this.  

It might take eight hours of your time to deal with the details, but you'd be making $1k an hour for your time presumably.  That's a pretty good pay rate, and there's no taxes on money saved.

Good luck with it no matter how you proceed.  Sounds like you're in the market for a new tractor one way or the other.  I could use a new tractor myself.  I'll just settle for new-tractor envy right now.

[btulloh]

The Kubota deal is 0 down and 0% for five years. To me, seems that they or the dealer should provide a discount to a cash buyer since they don't have to provide free financing. Time is money.

Whoever asked... I would do routine maintenance and easy fixes as far as maintenance goes. My brother and I. Neither is expert but we grew up on a farm.

Maybe, but I found that car dealers are just the opposite.  They get something for going the finance route, even at 0%.  Free financing, like free shipping - it isn't really free. 
I kinda think the same way you do about getting a discount for cash, but it seems my thinking is a bit antiquated.

[nativewolf]

I'd finance it and keep your powder dry, 0 down is 0 down.   You know exactly what has been done or not and in a few years the warranty might be helpful.

 The second best option, in my opinion, is to do as @Southside suggests and go get the generic tractor made in the same factory as the NH/Case, etc.  Going to be a fine tractor, new, and cheaper if you are determined to pay cash.  

Frankly I hate to deal with situations like kubota finance/owner etc.  But that's  me.  

[mike_belben]

How much sales or excise tax do u save on the used machine?

[livemusic]

I think I will have to pay sales/use tax on new or used. In my state, we are supposed to pay a use tax for something bought out of state. Used package is in Texas, I am in Louisiana. My understanding is that the state is getting clever in "catching" people not declaring use taxes on stuff. For instance, when I title the trailer, they would know about the trailer. But they would not know about the tractor and equipment so easily but they might still catch somebody not declaring it on their tax return.

I didn't know LS tractors have a good reputation. Will look into that. The nice thing about buying new is you can get exactly what you want. Whatever this seller has in his package is okay or maybe even fine but I might choose this and that a bit differently.

EDIT: I think the use tax is same as sales tax. Total sales tax here is 10%. Ouch. State is 4.45% and I know you have to pay them use tax. I dunno if use tax also is due county/city. (Parish is what counties are called here.) Yes, I hate paying sales tax. Say, that brings up a question I have long had... This seller paid sales tax when he bought new. I will pay when I buy it used. If I sell it, that buyer would pay sales tax? Is it never-ending taxes on goods sold, no matter how many times? If so, what a racket.

[Southside]

Could you get an agricultural use tax exemption? Not sure what the laws are there but from the sounds of it your land and it's use might fit into that box.  Worth looking into that option.  

[livemusic]

Could you get an agricultural use tax exemption? Not sure what the laws are there but from the sounds of it your land and it's use might fit into that box.  Worth looking into that option.  

I did look into it, appears to me it would need to be a 'manufacturing' designation, not farm, for what I do. You have to have income. For me that would be firewood. I dunno if any hay cutters would even fool with seven acres if I got it hayable. After looking into it, seemed quite a hassle. And then I'd have to file reports, which I detest.

[Southside]

Plenty of 7 acre fields rented for every crop one can imagine.  The key will be how close the land is to the farmers next field.  

[Corley5]

No sales tax on ag and industrial processing in Mi.

[curved-wood]

It is worth checking if it is really 0%. On my ATV I had to pay aroung $1500 MORE if I pay cash !!! Yes MORE. The dealer told me : it is the $$ returning from the bank to him if he could get me to sign a contract.  Same thing with the pick-up $500 rebate if I finance with them. But sometimes there is a rebate if you pay cash so it is not really 0% interest. If the give $1000 rebate if you pay cash, this means that if you finance even at 0% you are still paying $1000 more. What I am trying to say is we have to ask all the questions about what is really the price and the conditions ....could be surprising

[livemusic]

Wow, John Deere has zero-zero for 84 months and the package prices seem pretty amazing compared to this used Kubota package.

Here is what appears to be a close/same horsepower equivalent to the Kubota in this thread...

John Deere 3038E - 37hp 4wd tractor

• John Deere Loader
• 6-ft Frontier Rotary Cutter
• 6-ft Frontier Box Blade
• 20-ft Trailer
• All Fees & Insurance for the term
• No Cost, 6-Year Powertrain Warranty**
• FREE Load Retention Package Includes: 2 chains, 2 binders and 2 ratchet straps.

$339 for 84 months = $28,476
(doesn't include taxes)

I don't know if there are any gotchas there.

What I don't understand is here is another JD package...

$349 for 84 months = $29,316

John Deere 3043D - 43hp 4x4 tractor

• John Deere Loader
• 5-ft Frontier Rotary Cutter
• 5-ft Frontier Box Blade
• 16-ft Trailer
• All fees & insurance for the term
• No Cost, 6-Year Powertrain Warranty**
• FREE Load Retention Package Includes: 2 chains, 2 binders and 2 ratchet straps.

I don't understand why they have 6 ft cutter and 6 ft box blade on the smaller tractor and 5 ft cutter and 5 ft box blade on the one with more hp.

Nice thing is about this is I need a box blade and I do not need a hay spear. The used Kubota package has a hay spear but no box blade. I also would prefer to have 43hp rather than 37hp.

I just noticed that the second JD package above is a 16 ft trailer and the first JD package has a 20 ft trailer, same as the Kubota used package. Def need 20 ft.

[btulloh]

Interesting. Buying stuff ain’t easy when you get down to the details!  You’ve got some homework to do. 

43 hp is better than 37 in my book. Details?!

20 ft trailer is way better than 16ft. I have a 16ft and I found out it’s ALMOST long enough. Looking forward to trading it for a 20 ft. 

Keep digging!

[mike_belben]

Maybe they send you home with the 6ft blade so you come back in and buy the tractor thatll pull it.  

[btulloh]

The kubota is bigger, heavier, longer wheelbase, hst (jd is manual trans).

Apples and oranges. All depends on wants and needs. 

Personally I’d be looking at full size, a few more hours maybe. Something out of the m series kubota or similar. 

[btulloh]

As always, we love spending other members’ money. 

[livemusic]

The kubota is bigger, heavier, longer wheelbase, hst (jd is manual trans)...

Yep, you're right, it is. Hmmm...

[PoginyHill]

When I was looking at JD and Kubota, I chose Kubota because of more front axle clearance (front bevel gears instead of U-joints on the wheels), higher front driveshaft (higher differential), and universal skid steer FEL. JD has its own FEL attachment, so you need a conversion attachment or buy only JD front end attachments.

[mike_belben]

The JD exclusive quicktach would turn me right off.  

[TroyC]

TYM is the parent company in Korea that make complete units or components for other brands. Kioti is an example of a TYM, I think LS is also. Look on a Mahindra loader arm, metal plate says Mfd in Korea by TYM. The different brands have different standard equipment. Rural King put a lot of bells and whistles on theirs, Kioti not so much.
Mine is HST, glad I got that. These little tractors are tough. My friend with a Kubota says he wished he had looked at TYM. 
The TYM uses a Yanmar diesel, Kubota and Mahindra I think make their own.

[mike_belben]

Who do you get parts from for a rural king tractor?

[Southside]

Tractor Supply, duh.... . Sorry Mike, could not resist. 

[Hilltop366]

It use to be Kioti tractors were made by Daedong Industrial, that also made tractors for Bobcat, maybe that has changed?

......perhaps you were thinking of Branson, it was purchased by TYM.

I think Branson has tier 4 tractors without def or regen.

[BargeMonkey]

 Everyone says how bad NY is and then I read this paying tax on AG equipment.... 😆 
 Right now the way things are if your spending hard CASH you should be able to score some wicked private deals, have you looked on tractor house ? That Deere deal it's all included, insurance for the term, the way I would go. Like a couple of other guys said, go more HP if you can justify it, 30-35hp isnt really enough if you plan to do alot of work, I think 45-50hp is just right on a smaller tractor. 

[TroyC]

I think Daedong makes some of the diesel engines, not sure they make the whole tractor. 
About the parts-Rural King has a decent inventory. The parts also can be TYM parts. I looked the numbers up and I think the Rural King and TYM numbers were close or the same. Rural King puts their graphics on their tractors but they are TYM tractors.
My TYM has regeneration but no def. I think Kubota did not have regen on the 38 hp size. 
I think my FEL is rated about 2200, the rear 3 point about 2600 or so. It will lift a decent size tree onto the mill. HST, 4 wd, hydraulics, R4 tires, 6 yr transferrable warranty. Big buck bang!

[SPDM]

I did extensive research before buying my little compact tractor and learned of the cross-pollination between the various Korean, Japanese, US manufacturers. This is what I know about the compacts and sub-compact tractors.

Daedong is the parent company of Kioti tractors. They sell a full range of tractors in NA. They also make the Bobcat range of compact and sub-compact tractors. The Bobcats however come with a different loader (made by Woods I think). Daedong also made parts for Kubota back in the 90s however they had a falling out which led to a court settlement.

LS made most of the Montana branded tractors before they decided to exit the market.

TYM makes their own tractor as well as some of the Montana tractors and a number of Mahindra's.

Kubota is Kubota - that's it. No rebranding or supplier deals.

LS makes all the New Hollands under 90HP'ish with Mitsubishi engines.

Yanmar makes all of the JD compacts and sub-compacts with a different loader supplier depending on the model.

Itseki makes the compacts and sub-compacts MFs however Itseki doesn't have a Tier 4 engine (that I know of). I think they also use Mitsubishi engines for the bigger compacts models.  

Daedong (Kioti), LS, and TYM are South Korean and Yanmar, Itseki, and Kubota are Japanese.

I own a Kioti CK20s which is Daedong's response in late 2008-09 to Kubota's and MFs sub-compact tractors. Daedongs was kinda caught with their pants down without a sub-compact frame so they replaced the engine of the ck27 with a smaller HP engine. I essentially have a ck27/30 with a smaller displacement engine.

[mike_belben]

Kiotis are assembled just east of raleigh nc.. I think it was wendell.  It adds about $500 per unit to truck to east TN.  Pretty sure they have a texas assembly site too.  Further u get from there the more the transport youll pay.  


Kubota has an assembly plant in atlanta

[thecfarm]

Now that's a warehouse!!!

[mike_belben]

Pic shows maybe 1/5th of it.  Ive been in some pretty epic plants.  And pretty epic backyards with that truck.  

[SPDM]

Kiotis are assembled just east of raleigh nc.. I think it was wendell.  It adds about $500 per unit to truck to east TN.  Pretty sure they have a texas assembly site too.  Further u get from there the more the transport youll pay.  


Kubota has an assembly plant in atlanta

Very cool. I think LS also has an assembly plant in NC (Battleboro).
A member private messaged me about my info about JD tractors being made by Yanmar. I did a bit more research as my post was based on what I could gather before buying my little Kioti tractor some years ago. Many of the recent JD are not wholly made by Yanmar. Most of the JDs still have Yanmar engines and drive trains however the chassis and other bits probably come from other suppliers.
I believe sub-compact Club Cadets are made by Yanmar but don't take it to the bank.
I think the exact contents of the secret herbs and spices when it comes to compact and sub-compact tractors is an ever evolving recipe.
Thank you

[mike_belben]

Who makes branson? 


Saw a dealer ad for a brand new 4x4 37hp cummins diesel with loader. $23k, "100% financing available."

[Walnut Beast]

Kukje machinery been in biz since 68. South Korea. 168 dealerships in US and Canada. Many choices now days 😂

[Walnut Beast]

I thought it was interesting that ASV Holdings that obviously builds ASV loaders has been owned by Yanmar since September 2019

[SPDM]

Who makes branson?


Saw a dealer ad for a brand new 4x4 37hp cummins diesel with loader. $23k, "100% financing available."

I think Kukje made Branson tractor however TYM reportedly bought Kukje in 2016. So I'm not sure anymore. I also forgot to add that Kukje also made JD branded tractor for a while. If you search for the tractors fandom website, they have a relatively comprehensive list of who makes what.
I'll also note that I couldn't find any info on who made the JD 4000 series tractors from the late 90s/ early 2000s.

[samandothers]

Looked at John Deere in 07 when I bought the 42 hp Kubota.  The hood was plastic and the unique quick attach was a turn off for me.  I had great service from mine.  I priced new at 3 dealers before deciding.  I did go with the 0% it made sense for me at the time. No regrets.

[Nathan4104]

Very interesting learning about the ebb and flow of the tractor market and who’s makin who and who’s cheating who!! 

I’d say if you’re going to buy new, the brand is likely less important than the dealer support and $ you’re willing to spend.  You may as well have a decent dealer nearby for that ‘just in case’ repair, or late afternoon filter/part.  
My father bought a Branson. He’s getting good use from it.  No regen on it to worry about, but it’s a simple machine. I bought a used M series Kubota. Overkill for me by it’s nice and easily does what I need it to do.
Good luck in your search/research!!