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Author Topic: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms  (Read 802 times)

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Offline flagoworld

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Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« on: September 14, 2020, 01:12:13 AM »
I have a Partner 65 without a chainbrake. I am making one from scratch for it as it runs great and I want to save it.

I have come up with a couple potentially working mechanisms, but I would really like to try to replicate how it was from the factory.

Does anyone have any vintage chainbrakes of similar style that can share pics of the mechanism?

Here are a couple pix from google of the assembly, but i can’t find what is inside. These are not pix of my saw. Mine has no chainbrake.



Offline sablatnic

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2020, 02:31:18 AM »
What is the problem with the brake in the photos?

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2020, 10:31:10 AM »
Those photos are from google images. My saw does not currently have a chainbrake at all.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2020, 11:01:12 AM »
I would look for an assembly or a later donor saw. You don't say where you are, Partner is not well known here in North America.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2020, 12:22:10 PM »
I would look for an assembly or a later donor saw. You don't say where you are, Partner is not well known here in North America.
I am in WA.
I have been looking for a couple months now to no avail. I am also not willing to pay $100 for one if one does ever become available again.
I think pics of any old style chainbrake mechanism with the dual pivot/sliding poll mechanism assembled would help me. I can fab whatever. The new mechanisms are not helpful as they are the rotating over-center type and do not fit in this small space.

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 12:31:59 PM »
Oh also this assembly seems to be identical to the Maccullough P100 and Pro Mac 1000, as well as the Partner P100, Partner 1633b, Partner S55, and possibly some Poulan models of the era.

Offline sablatnic

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2020, 06:19:48 PM »
You can use the brakes from all of the "small cube"saws, but not from the large cubes.
Come to think, if you are to make a new brake, you could worse than using some Stihl components. They are cheap and easy to get hold of.

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2020, 12:23:19 AM »
You can use the brakes from all of the "small cube"saws, but not from the large cubes.
Come to think, if you are to make a new brake, you could worse than using some Stihl components. They are cheap and easy to get hold of.
Thanks,
What’s a “small cube” saw? Excuse the lack of knowledge. Trying to figure out what to look up.

Offline sablatnic

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2020, 01:23:46 AM »
Small cube are the cube shaped Partner saws between 55 and 70 cc, and that includes Skil 1633. I can't remember, if that includes some Poulans.
They made a larger series too, large cube, between 80 and 100cc. The brakes from those won't fit.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2020, 04:44:31 AM »
I've got a pretty good collection of Partner part lists but I'm not certain if I have one for that model .The picture you showed would be typical of the P-100 style of which I have two saws .One has a brake one not .
IMO you would be better off with an OEM unit than try to cobble one together .You might try chainsawr on the net as a source . That said I will attempt to find a parts list if I have one . 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2020, 05:07:50 AM »
Mercy me are they proud of them .Scott at ChainsawR doesn't have one but if he did it would be 75 bucks .Evidently if the site is correct that cover was used on the s-65,s-55 and p-70 . I have an idea it's a rare item .Like Sawguy said Partner was not a popular chainsaw .Why so I have no idea .

Offline realzed

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2020, 08:17:33 AM »
Out of curiosity - is this one for sale a model that would contain parts that the OP is looking for:  

Ebay and Ebay type ads not permitted, refer to http://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?action=rules

$75 CDN - isn't that like $15 USD before shipping?  :-)

Offline realzed

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2020, 09:07:18 AM »
Would I still be breaking the rules in trying to help out and mention that my original link might be referencing a Facebook Marketplace ad that I have no affiliation to, posted in or near Sudbury Ontario Canada - under 'chainsaws for sale'..?
If so I give up..!


Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2020, 02:09:59 AM »
Thanks for the replies. If someone does happen to have something very similar and they would be willing to share pix of the mechanism removed from the case, that would be super helpful to me! I am more interested in the mechanism designed to fit into this small space than I am an exact match part, if that makes sense.... An approximation will allow me to recreate something very close to factory.

Whatever I create will be CAD drawn, 3d printed to test, then created out of steel. So i wouldn’t exactly call it “cobbling” 🤪 But very close to it I suppose!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2020, 03:52:26 AM »
 :D This thing has grown legs .All I have is the parts list for an F-55-65-70 .Nothing for S-65 .
However from the picture already posted that assembly resembles the P-100 which I do have .So I might assume that said the mechanics are the same design only the S-65 would be smaller in length,width etc .
Some place I do have a bar cover for a smaller Partner saw side cover with no brake .The question is does it have the proper mounting to accept a brake assembly or is it stand alone ? I have no idea where that cover even came from .Might have been me clicking on the wrong item on flea bay ,it happens .
Later on today I'll snap a pic of both a brake assembly for a P-100 super plus that bare cover if I can find it .That's about the best I can do because I'm no Partner expert .I'd get a pic now except it's as dark as the inside of a boot at nearly 4 AM here in the corn field . 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2020, 04:03:20 AM »
Now having said that about a Partner saw but going of at a slant .I did make a side cover for a gear drive McCulloch 650 circa mid 1960's which is rare .
I however made it out of aluminum and it was long before chain brakes were even thought of .I've been looking for the correct cover for over 15 years and have only ever seen one on flea-bay but being a tight wad was not going to pony up the money .A pic of that saw is on Mike Acre's site and the cover doesn't look that bad all things considered . 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2020, 08:09:00 AM »
What you can do is a Google on Partner S 65 parts list and it will come up .I tried on chainsawr and found but it copied in PDF so  have no idea how to convert it so I could post it .I can throw the parts from three chainsaws in a pile and figure them out but I'm a moron about computers .I want to adjust them with a big hammer at times .Old dog new trick kind of thing . :)

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2020, 10:12:02 AM »
I've got a picture of both the brake from a SP 1000 McCulloch plus I think a cover than might be for that S-65 .It's an over center trip mechanism .I didn't break it down because I've been down that road before and  spent a half a day trying to get it back together .At any rate it's the same design .

 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2020, 10:33:27 AM »
Now then about these Partners .First of all they were not that popular but they do have a real good power range in their size classes . I rebuild and fully restored two of the size shown above with the exception of a paint job.One will be prettied up the one in the picture will not be .I'm not certain how long I've had that one but when I got serious about it it took two years of research and finding what parts I needed .That's the way it goes on restoration some times .
Chances are if it were a Stihl or Husqarna it wouldn't have taken so long .As I always say though if it were easy anybody could do it . 8) 

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2020, 10:49:22 AM »
Oh man... First, thank you for all the time spent writing up these replies. Second, that chainbrake in your pic looks very similar to the pics I posted in the initial post. Is there any way you can get pics of what the mechanism looks like inside? Is it too tight to take some closeups through the cracks? I know it is over center, but I want to know vaguely what those components look like. Thanks! 🙂

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2020, 11:52:35 AM »
Let me check. I won't put a link just a suggestion where to look .If not I'll peal it apart but that won't be for a week 
 .

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2020, 12:10:42 PM »
If you do a Google search under Partner S-65 brake assembly and go to images some will show up .It links to one web forum I'll never access again but also to others . I've got a short road trip and when I get back if you haven't figured it out I'll take it apart and snap a picture .
While I'm at it it took me about 4 years to find a brake assembly for a Stihl 042 then about 2 hours to figure it out and I disassembled it from the bones of a donor too .These things are a pain in my posterior .  :D

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2020, 01:28:19 PM »
I have done these google searches and found what I presume to be similar assemblies, but the issue is that the only things that come up are parts that uses to be for sale on ChainsawR, and every image has a very different set of parts. There is no hint as to where the parts go and looking at them in the pics I can’t see how they would fit into the 2 pins in the brake housing. The smaller pin has only a couple mm of clearance to the back of the housing and none of the shown parts are that small... I really want to see what they look like in place.

Not to sound short with anyone, but i have spent hours on google and am at the point where I am looking for very specific things... That is, exactly what I have asked for, which is a picture of the assembly in place or removed and mocked up as if it were in place. I don’t want to waste your time by having you replying with things I have already looked into 🙂 Apologies if that was not clear from the get go.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2020, 05:38:01 PM »
So saying that you have a bare side cover minus the actual brake  assembly mechanism ?

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2020, 06:55:58 PM »
Indeed that is what I am saying!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2020, 01:33:32 PM »
Here it comes .I'll apologize ahead of time with the amount of pics but I don't how else to do with it .This first shows the handle with the sleeve with a slot that the small roll pin goes through . That movable sleeve gizmo is what sets or latches the brake in conjuction with another piece in another post I'll do one pic at a time and try to explain how it works the best I can .


Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2020, 01:41:20 PM »
Moving right along .This shows the release which by rotating forward by contacting a pin on the bottom portion of the handle releases the tension on the spring which clamps down on the drum .Now at the same time mentioned in the previous post it rocks the lock from the small roll pin .

 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2020, 01:44:13 PM »
Now another showing the cam or whatever you want to call it .

 

 

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2020, 01:48:26 PM »
Last one .This shows the Belleville washer and the roll pin every thing rotates on .Now if I can get it all back together that might be a real feat of patience .


Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2020, 05:16:49 PM »
Just as a follow up it took me about two hours to reassemble this @#*%&& thing back together .As I've said before chain brakes are not my friends . >:(

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2020, 09:49:06 PM »
What a legend. Thanks so much! It all makes perfect sense now. I will post again in a few days when I have some drawings and prototypes done to show the progress.

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2020, 10:36:54 PM »
If your going to duplicate it  you need that Belleville washer or it won't latch .Voice of experience here because I missed aligning it  two times on reassembly .This one I had to walk away from three times before I got it .
Funny thing about these brakes because they were an option in the day .For example the P-100 did not even list them nor the Mac PM 1000 but the P100 super ,a later adaptation  did .--The S-65 did though as well as a non brake cover .
Now the odd thing about that is the cover I used came on a Mac 1000 and the P-100 super I have is no brake . However on saws that are in the neighborhood of 40 years old you have no idea of the history .Except they will run like a scalded ape 8)

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2020, 11:49:54 PM »
Makes perfect sense about the washer. That keeps the lever detainer plate affixed to the sidewall and shtiff so it doesn't flap in the breeze when the lever passes by it, yes?

Based on your pics and the pics of parts that have been for sale on the past for this saw on chainsawr, I was able to come up with this mechanism in CAD. It looks like it should work! I modeled the housing, too, and it fits inside that tiny housing! (hidden so you can see the mechanism).

I'll be attempting to build it soon. Will keep you posted.

Also, yeah, this thing really runs. That is why I want to save it. Starts with 1 pull. I disassembled and reassembled much of it and it is all very clean. Someone loved it before me.




 


Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2020, 05:12:47 AM »
On the subject of the brand itself these two P-100's I restored are the only two I've ever owned or worked on .It's been a learning experience .
Why as a brand they never captured more of the market I'll never know .The way they are built they are almost bullet proof .I think one of mine died because of a faulty ignition but looked like it had spent some time on the bottom of the Pacific ocean .
I broke it loose with a grease gun and the insides were clean as a pin except the rings were frozen .At the moment I have a 20" bar on it .Do the math 99 cc and short bar .Plus it also fires on one warm but wears a D-handle because it does have some compression and the after market 272 Husky coil is a hot one .It blows a nice hot blue spark at relatively low speed which can be a kick back hazard .----well good luck,hope it works out  :)

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2020, 05:32:45 AM »
On the subject of CAD I never got into it but  it is fascinating .I spent the last 15 or so years of my working life working with  CNC programs and robotics but stopped short of CAD because it was not part of my job .
On something like this I can see writing a program and dumping it into a CNC controlled milling machine it could just spit out the parts .On my old 1938 Bridgeport mill it would take me a month of Sundays and many attempts .
A thought however occurred to me .Since the almost same things were used on the s-65 and the P-100 if they are not the same parts .I never crossed referenced them myself .If so I would think possibly the design might be in use on other things perhaps by different manufacturers .Like for instance who knew a Husky 272 coil  might work in place of that two piece electronic ignition system  ? I guessed and got lucky . ;)

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2020, 11:48:29 AM »
I had some time on my hands so I took the liberty of researching those parts numbers --From the P100 Super brake band # 303829 ,Cam # 269270 sleeve# 269275 .
On both the P-70 and the S-65 these same numbers are used except they had a 505 before them .So it would appear they are all the same .There may be other models  included in that .

Offline flagoworld

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2020, 11:52:19 AM »
“They don’t make em like they used to”... The way I see it, material science and manufacturing is so much farther developed that they are able to understand the limits of materials much better and manufacture precisely to expected limits, optimizing material use and manufacturing complexity. But as a side effect, especially with consumer products, using them beyond their intended limit or even close to it for extended periods seems to more often than not cause very premature failure. It does seem like a lot of older things are “built to last” in the sense that they inherently have a little more tolerance for abuse. I am amazed at how well a lot of these really old small engines run.

I wish I had a milling machine. I am planning on making a smaller one at some point. The tech is so readily available and cheap now, it’s like lego parts. I have been more in the computer scene my whole life, but absolutely love bringing those creations to reality. 3D printing has been an amazing outlet to that end. Still hand-fabbing metal like a peasant 🤪... Soon... soon...

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2020, 03:25:56 PM »
In some applications high impact plastics are more robust than die cast aluminum  alloy and some it's not good ..I've seen in it automobile engines and what used to leak oil doesn't any more .Plus engine noise is greatly muffled .
However one popular make of saws has problems on it's greatly popular climbing saw .The chain brake handle, which is plastic, breaks which is not a good thing . 

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2020, 03:05:07 PM »
Is it against the rules to post a youtube vid?

I made a rough prototype the mechanism in metal after confirming it worked in plastic. It appears to work!!! I still need to clean it up and add the detent on the lever so it catches on the plate properly and with the right amount of force. Then I will 3d print a nice big handle and screw it to that metal lever.


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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 09:47:43 PM »
As per the design which quite honestly fools with my pea sized brain the "sleeve " has to engage the handle to reset .

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 10:54:40 PM »
Yeah I still need to add that part. Hoping to have it dialed in over the next couple days. Even without that detent retainer it seems to somewhat retain itself. Though it would probably trip itself in the current state heh heh.

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #41 on: Today at 06:55:42 AM »
In looking at that cover I think perhaps it was designed for a non brake application .What's missing are the little nubs of the casting around the outside of the band present on the one designed for a brake .I'm not sure of that would be a problem or not .I'll take the cover from the P-100 super today which has no brake and take a pic .

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Re: Partner 65 / Vintage chain brake mechanisms
« Reply #42 on: Today at 04:57:30 PM »
In taking a second look now I think I see those tabs that hold the band .Belay my last .


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