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Author Topic: Alternative Starting Methods?  (Read 1081 times)

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Offline ~smokey~

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Alternative Starting Methods?
« on: September 23, 2020, 01:30:12 AM »
I'm looking for ideas to build an easier way of starting chainsaws, particularly larger displacement saws or one's that are just cranky to get going, I've seen a bunch of methods and decided on using this 12 volt starter mounted to the receiver hitch on the front or rear bumper. if anyone has any ideas, advice or if you've made your own alternate starting method please post up some pics and info.

The starter will drive the flywheel the same way the pull starter does using the pawl slots.




 

This Toyota starter should be strong enough for starting any chainsaw.



 

Online Ianab

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2020, 03:01:24 AM »
A heavy duty battery drill should do it? 

The starter motor could probably power a decent chainsaw itself if you wanted to lug a battery around.  :D 
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2020, 04:06:26 AM »
A heavy duty battery drill should do it?

The starter motor could probably power a decent chainsaw itself if you wanted to lug a battery around.  :D
Definitely, todays cordless drills are amazing, I've seen that Makita on steroids removing huge bolts off transport trucks it's pretty impressive, but since I presently don't own one and I'd probably want a 2nd battery it gets really expensive.
Mine will be a cheap build, maybe $ 50 in parts.
I put this 2" receiver on one side when I built my bumper I plan on using that for a solid mount with a foot push button for the starter



 

Offline Air Lad

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2020, 04:54:00 AM »
A heavy duty battery drill should do it?

The starter motor could probably power a decent chainsaw itself if you wanted to lug a battery around.  :D
Absolutely
Have a recycled leaf blower saved from the scrap heap
Has no starter assembly
The battery drill with correct socket works just fine
Note : I use a clutch type drill not an impact type
The impact ones hammer at the nut and can be too aggressive without really turning the engine over
Only thing to be careful of once engine is running is flywheel bits can pick up loose clothing without a cover and injure .
2 cents  ;)

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2020, 09:31:13 PM »
I see a couple of problems with this method. First how are you going to couple the starter to the flywheel? A socket drive will spin the nut off. Second, the saw will overheat with the rewind removed. For safety reasons it should be left on. It looks like an MS250 maybe you should look at the C version with Easy2Start or a cordless.

old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline barbender

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2020, 09:43:03 PM »
I do remember one time, I was in Home Depot looking at weed whackers and noticed a Ryobi gas model that said  "electric start" on it. You just inserted a Ryobi battery, she'd crank right over. One of my friends happened to walk up, he's a mechanic. I said "hey, check this out" and cranked that thing over with the starter. We were like Beavis and Butthead geeking out over that thing, "do it again, huh huh, huh huh"
Too many irons in the fire

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2020, 01:22:23 AM »
I see a couple of problems with this method. First how are you going to couple the starter to the flywheel? A socket drive will spin the nut off. Second, the saw will overheat with the rewind removed. For safety reasons it should be left on. It looks like an MS250 maybe you should look at the C version with Easy2Start or a cordless.
First I'm going to disable the solenoid engagement on the starter so it's just a spinning shaft, I'll make a pattern of the pawl engagement slots and transfer that to a thick piece of nylon, that will be mounted to a plate on the shaft.
The rewind remains in place, a 2nd hand starter cover replaces the original, the orange center piece will be removable and replaced after starting the saw.

Offline Spike60

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 07:12:44 AM »
What's the RPM of the Toyota starter? Different coils require different RPM's to fire. "Rope" RPM's are part of the equation when starting a saw. Most are in the 1400 range. Some of the newer coils are designed to fire at half that making saws easier to start for some folks. We sometimes bench test Kohler or Briggs starters for customers, and with no load these things sound like they are spinning quite fast. If someone tried to start a saw with one of those it might be fast enough to be well past clutch engagement speed.

In addition, that starter will have a serious amount of torque. Just imagine starting your truck with a rope. LOL The starter being fixed to the truck with the operator holding the saw up against it sounds a little awkward. Certainly requires both hands on the saw, so who hits the starter switch? Needs to be perfectly lined up or it might spin the bearings out of the case or the entire saw out of your hands. Hardly sounds like a safe way to start a saw. Sounds kind of scary really.
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Offline Old saw fixer

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 10:14:11 AM »
I'll say it, it's a BAD idea.  If you can't start it by yourself, you oughtn't be using it.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 10:52:47 AM »
I remember seeing a Remington chainsaw with electric start and no rewind, just jumper cables. If it quit for any reason the operator either had to have a heavy battery with him or walk back to the truck, not very practical. You are making this too complicated not to mention unsafe.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2020, 12:00:31 AM »
What's the RPM of the Toyota starter? Different coils require different RPM's to fire. "Rope" RPM's are part of the equation when starting a saw. Most are in the 1400 range. Some of the newer coils are designed to fire at half that making saws easier to start for some folks. We sometimes bench test Kohler or Briggs starters for customers, and with no load these things sound like they are spinning quite fast. If someone tried to start a saw with one of those it might be fast enough to be well past clutch engagement speed.

In addition, that starter will have a serious amount of torque. Just imagine starting your truck with a rope. LOL The starter being fixed to the truck with the operator holding the saw up against it sounds a little awkward. Certainly requires both hands on the saw, so who hits the starter switch? Needs to be perfectly lined up or it might spin the bearings out of the case or the entire saw out of your hands. Hardly sounds like a safe way to start a saw. Sounds kind of scary really.
All very good points thanks for all the info, not sure what the RPMs are but that pretty much puts an end to using the Toyota starter motor. if I decide to use a smaller 12volt motor I'll be using a foot operated pushbutton. although I'm also leaning towards a cordless drill.

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2020, 12:02:54 AM »
I'll say it, it's a BAD idea.  If you can't start it by yourself, you oughtn't be using it.
I just have an injury at the moment, I'm still using it.

Online JoshNZ

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2020, 02:45:18 AM »
I thought there were "wind up" start mechanisms out there now? Where you pull the starting cord gently/slowly several times, which tensions a coil spring and it finally lets go and spins the flywheel. Don't know what it's called or which models it's on but I'm sure there'd be a scrapped one out there somewhere you could adapt.

I can understand not wanting to pull a big saw with a crook shoulder hah.

They start nitro RC helis with a little hand held starter, look into that?

Online Al_Smith

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2020, 07:26:50 AM »
I tried that drill motor method thinking a ratchet head would work so as not the spin the nut off .It did not .I had the flywheel of a 90 CC 50  year old gear drive saw orbiting my garage .It just barely missed my wifes Cadillac .Not a real good idea .You might be able to wind one up to check the spark with the spark plug out without any ill effects .I would not recommend starting one .

Online Al_Smith

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2020, 10:50:31 AM »
The cheapest method is to trot on down to your friendly Stihl dealer and buy an MS 460 rescue saw D-handle. That takes the bite out of the bark .What 10 bucks more or less .In fact the last two saws I rebuilt, Partner P-100,s 99 cc high compression wear them .I'm soon to be 73 years old and I  can pull them over with gusto .---btw I have a torn rotator cuff on one arm and a blown out bicep on the other side ,works for me . ;D

Offline gspren

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2020, 07:31:50 PM »
Al has mentioned that D-handle a few times and I think I just might try one. My 044 doesn't have a compression release and about the time I qualified for Medicare it started gaining compression. 
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Online JoshNZ

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2020, 08:31:16 PM »
It's probably not hard to drill, tap, and machine a recess for a decompression plug?

Online Al_Smith

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2020, 01:47:04 PM »
Those normal T type handles are usually okay for a normal saw .Except the way things work as you age you just don't have it any more .I used the be able to lay on my back under a Chevy truck and pull the three speed tranny out and put it back in all by hand .The last I did was on a Ranger 5 speed .It took a floor jack for that one .
The D type lets you get a firm grip on things unlike  a T .BTW on one of my little Stihl MS 200T's which is modified I have an "Elasto start " .Which could be an option instead of a D-handle except they cost more .

Offline angelo c

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2020, 08:48:00 AM »
+2 on the @easystart 251
Also gonna need a bit more info... What saw in particular or "Any" saw at all ? All decompression buttons are not the same and may be "ported" to offer less compression . Also the saw itself can be "built" with timing "advanced" or "retarded" to help starting and "ported" with less compression in mind for the operator. 
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Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2020, 01:10:24 AM »
I have an injury at the moment but still doing everything I usually do so looking to make that a little easier, my saw is a Stihl MS260, it starts great but hurts like hell these days, I've dropped the Toyota starter idea for a more practical cordless drill, my plan now is to hold the saw in a vice attached to the receiver hitch on my truck and start it the usual way, if I have any trouble I'll install another starter cover that allows me to use the drill

Offline Hilltop366

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2020, 03:01:55 PM »
There was a gismo made that hooked to your pull cord and used a drill to pull the cord, I believe it was called the "pull start tool", if I recall it was expensive and you still needed to provide a drill.

Thinking of your vice idea, what if with the vice you also had a vertical post with a small pulley near the top. Run a rope with a loop on one end and a D handle on the other.

Put the saw bar in the vice and have a bumper on the top of the saw engine to prevent the saw from tipping, put the loop around the pull cord handle with the new rope going up over the pulley then down a bit, put your foot in the D handle and push down.

Another option, instead of the D handle, connect a L shaped leaver (think motorcycle kick starter), it would provide a positive direction and not capture your foot like a D handle.

Online Al_Smith

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2020, 06:29:05 PM »
There's always an option of a battery saw to get by with .

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2020, 01:58:34 AM »
There was a gismo made that hooked to your pull cord and used a drill to pull the cord, I believe it was called the "pull start tool", if I recall it was expensive and you still needed to provide a drill.

Thinking of your vice idea, what if with the vice you also had a vertical post with a small pulley near the top. Run a rope with a loop on one end and a D handle on the other.

Put the saw bar in the vice and have a bumper on the top of the saw engine to prevent the saw from tipping, put the loop around the pull cord handle with the new rope going up over the pulley then down a bit, put your foot in the D handle and push down.

Another option, instead of the D handle, connect a L shaped leaver (think motorcycle kick starter), it would provide a positive direction and not capture your foot like a D handle.
Excellent ideas ! Thanks

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2020, 02:03:29 AM »
There's always an option of a battery saw to get by with .
I looked into those their pretty nice, for years I've wanted a 12 volt saw called a Mini Brute, they came as a promotional item with large wood splitters and used a winch motor, I finally located one on ebay but the guy was on the other side of the country and completely ignored my interest, must be steep shipping costs !

Offline ~smokey~

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Re: Alternative Starting Methods?
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2020, 02:07:42 AM »
Thanks to everyone for your input and suggestions, I've changed my mind on using a stationary starter motor and opted to mount the chainsaw in a receiver hitch mounted post vise, as I was pull starting my MS260 in the video due to my injury it hurt like hell !  so my decision to pick up an old used starter cover and modify it to use a cordless drill became even more obvious, the saw has been sitting in the truck for weeks now with cooler temps but still started pretty good.



 



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