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Author Topic: persimmon holes and powder  (Read 274 times)

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Online doc henderson

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persimmon holes and powder
« on: October 16, 2020, 07:30:34 PM »
tiny holes in persimmon.   I had milled a yard persimmon tree for a guy named Tom.  He also had a tree nursery, and knew his trees.  he had air dried the wood, but later found these holes.  this was milled in 2018.  I know cause I do not charge, but he was kind enough to give me a gift certificate.  I went to get a couple trees from him (a lilac tree and a maple).  he had told me he put the boards under plastic, and put bug bombs in there.  we had talked about heat treating, and he showed me the wood.  he has a beautiful daughter named Scout, and he wanted to make her a chest.  anyway, here are pics of the wood.  i think it is dry enough the borers are done, and I did not see any new powder so maybe the 5 bug bombs he put under the plastic did its job.  thoughts.  is it safe to build with.  i did not take a moisture meter, inside a shop.  big worry is the bugs, and do we need to heat treat to be safe.  



 


 


 


 

the tracks on the flat surface looks like the bored out between the boards after sawn, and for sure no evidence of them while sawing.  the holes appear to be 3/32 inch diameter.  @GeneWengert-WoodDoc  @WDH @Southside @YellowHammer 
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline WDH

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2020, 08:05:25 PM »
Damage from more than one beetle.  But, the bad news is that one of them is in fact the lyctid powderpost beetle.  The last pic shows the edge of the board and you can see the small frass filled tunnels.  The other boring beetles that made the larger holes are most likely gone now, but the PPB's may not be.  They can hang around for several years and then emerge.  Typically, bug bombs do not penetrate into the wood where the beetle eggs and larvae are, so the bug bombs might not have been effective.  As you told him, the sure fire answer is heat.  PPB's sure love persimmon. 

Boracare which is disodium octaborate tetrahydrate, the chemical in Timbor and Solubor, with some other stuff like glycol is supposed to be able to penetrate the wood but I have never used it as a remedial treatment.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Online doc henderson

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2020, 08:33:50 PM »
so 160 F overnight, or what do you recommend.  133 internal?
the wood is from a small tree, and about 3 feet long overall.  so he is able to make a small container and add some halogen lights.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Online doc henderson

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2020, 08:37:43 PM »
Thanks Danny!
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2020, 08:50:53 PM »
I would certainly be happy with 160 degrees for a full night for small pieces of wood.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2020, 07:29:42 PM »
Doc, I have an excerpt from FWW magazine that instructs how to make a home sterilization chamber. Its pretty simple.

If youd like a copy, send me a pm with your email address.

Scott
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Online doc henderson

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2020, 09:02:00 PM »
Tom and his daughter Scout brought the wood over today.  I was able to get it into my blanket and fluid warmer that just so happens to go to 160 F.  it was started at about 10 am, and will come out in am.  thanks scsmith!
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 08:06:31 AM »
One comment about borate...it is a water solution.  The liquid water carries the borate into the wood, but if the liquid water dries, then the borate stops moving.  So, on air dried wood,  orate is not effective enuf to eliminate the critters unless applied again and again until the core gets wet.

Bug bombs do penetrate the wood somewhat, but the gas disappears before it can attack the eggs or larva that are not active.  It certainly stops those at or near the surface that are coming out to breed, which is important, but is less effective on younger insects deep in the wood.  With the large number of holes, the insects are likely of all ages.

Overall, persimmon is very attractive to a variety of powderpost beetles, including lyctid and ambrosia.  It does seem like you have several different species.  If these were active prior to sawing, we would see a lot of holes cut lengthwise...I see maybe one on all the pictures.  
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Online doc henderson

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Re: persimmon holes and powder
« Reply #8 on: Today at 12:11:52 PM »
update.  after all the advice for heat, i thought we could squeeze this little bundle in my fluid and blanket warmer i bought on a government auction,  from Fort Riley.  



 

set at 160F overnight.  did not initially see any bugs and figured they werre eggs or larva.  i did see a few black specks on the floor, so took a pick on a paper with a 1/4 inch grid.  very tiny.



 


 

any idea what it is, and yes looks to dry to eat.
timberking B 2000, 277c track loader, PJ 32 foot gooseneck, 1976 F700 state dump truck, JD 850 tractor.  2007 Chevy 3500HD dually, home built log splitter 18 horse 28 gpm with 5 inch cylinder and 32 inch split range with conveyor 12 volt tarp motor


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