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Author Topic: Yellow & Red Metal  (Read 1205 times)

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Offline weimedog

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Yellow & Red Metal
« on: November 20, 2020, 11:25:17 PM »
Not being the best mechanic in the world, it takes a bit of luck to get some of the old saws to run ...

Almost without exception I've been able to get old Homelites to run with a fuel line and a carb kit, maybe a spark plug. Have had excellent "luck" right?

But with the Yellow saws, I've had nothing but bad luck. :) especially with the 700 series. One fired first pull, idled, thought it was a winner.....45 second later in a cut it starts to go lean. The case / cylinder junction sucks air says the brake clean can...:( The other will fire and run for maybe 20 minutes before it's tune begins to change....

So after 3 "bad" luck scenerio's with the Yellow "plague" I decided to move on..or back to an old Jonsered Bob had brought up. 

Ratty looking thing with tape holding the handle together in a stick goo....enough grim on it to make you think it was a black saw..:) Filter had that same tar. Plug cap was separated from the plug wire. Pulled the plud and it too had a dark brown crust on it....BUT the saw had spark even with that plug. HOT blue spark. God only knows hoe long its been sitting. The fuel was that kerosene looking stuff with that 10 year old gas smell. Dumped it out put fresh gas in.

Took a peek at the diaphragm in the top of the cab, was stiff like a piece of card board. So i dabbed a little gas on it, dripped a little straignt in the carb. Put fresh gas in the tank, a new fuel filter. 

First pull it ran for a few seconds and went lean and quit. Tapped the carb with a screw driver handle. Next pull it fired and ran....let it idle for a while. Shut it off, and it refired one pull.

The contrast to the Yellow fever's is striking. I LIKE old saws like that... :)

But my question is there has to be a way to make the McCulloch's run right?? There is a following and there are a gazillion of them out there. WHAT is the trick??
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2020, 06:26:17 AM »
The "trick" is to stay with the red saw....lol.

Kevin

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2020, 06:39:12 AM »
I think what happens on some of those Macs is they put them together with bath tub caulk and eventually they leak .Originally they used gasket shellac ,Indian Head .It's just thinned down Permatex number 1 .
From my experience it's seldom a leaky crankshaft seal and if so it's on the clutch side .The good thing is the seals are all SAE sized and easy to find .I've never had a bearing go bad --so far .
As a rule McCullochs are a very user friendly saw to work on with the exception of the Mini Macs .Those are so frustrating they could make a preacher cuss .
Now the red saws ,I only have a few and in fact some that are blue .They are about like the Macs, very simple and as a rule dependable .

Offline lxskllr

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2020, 06:51:42 AM »
I wonder what the most robust saw would be. Not the best or fastest cutter, but the one that be dragged through a creek, life spent bouncing in the back of an open truck, never maintained, but never needs more work than can be carried in a field bag, and fixed in-field? The ak47 of chainsaws.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2020, 06:52:43 AM »
As far as sealants I'm old school .If it worked on a model A Ford it will work on a chainsaw or a new Cadillac .I've got the jumbo sizes of Permatex ,red Loctite etc .
I know some people substitute some form of sealant in place of a gasket .I don't subscribe to that theory and always make a real gasket .
Every so often a stubborn saw comes along to drive you nuts .Take a deep breath, put the thing on the shelf and go have some liquid refreshment and attack it with gusto at a later date .I had a Stihl 042 drive me bonkers and I banished it to the shelf for about 2 years until I got my cool back .I wanted to punish it with a big ball peen hammer but stayed the course .BTW as I type it runs like a top . 8)

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2020, 06:55:24 AM »
I wonder what the most robust saw would be. Not the best or fastest cutter, but the one that be dragged through a creek, life spent bouncing in the back of an open truck, never maintained, but never needs more work than can be carried in a field bag, and fixed in-field? The ak47 of chainsaws.
McCulloch PM 610 .Heavy, ugly but will run with more damage than anything ever made .

Online Tacotodd

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2020, 07:46:49 AM »
I wonder what the most robust saw would be. Not the best or fastest cutter, but the one that be dragged through a creek, life spent bouncing in the back of an open truck, never maintained, but never needs more work than can be carried in a field bag, and fixed in-field? The ak47 of chainsaws.
McCulloch PM 610 .Heavy, ugly but will run with more damage than anything ever made .
Al, Im going to keep on the lookout for that mystical always dependable saw! As long as like the AK47, it always goes BANG!
Trying harder everyday.

Offline mike_belben

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2020, 08:32:45 AM »
I wonder what the most robust saw would be. Not the best or fastest cutter, but the one that be dragged through a creek, life spent bouncing in the back of an open truck, never maintained, but never needs more work than can be carried in a field bag, and fixed in-field? The ak47 of chainsaws.
Husky 61.  Your pocket will fit everything but a crank splitter.  I can be looking at the piston in 5 minutes.  They are the small block chevy of sweden.  The base layer that the 372 evolved from.  And if that aint a legend shoot me now. 
Revelation 3:20

Offline weimedog

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2020, 08:52:44 AM »
Bob has informed me there is a growing interest in that 61-272 chassis....SO in our typical fashion we will do a video at some point on..... the red version :) ( 625-670's ) Some day in the future. But I think if the "small block chevy" of the saw world is the 61/272 , then the "LS" has to be the 372 series.  :) AND to get a little controversy going to start the weekend...what would u all c as the Big Bock Chev? Stihl 066-660?? :)
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2020, 09:15:59 AM »
It's kind of amusing this talk of who's dog is better .When you boil it all down it amounts to the popularity of what's available in a particular area
For example in this area for modern saws Stihl is the front runner ,others are spotty .What others are usually "box store " specials with no dealer support for parts .
When they stop running they get banished to the shelf and they trot off to buy another one and end up at garage sales for next to nothing .Perhaps for trade for  a broken shotgun or a deaf half blind coon dog .Every so often a Stihl or other higher quality saws pop up at garage sales usually only needing a carb rebuild .I just shake my head .

Offline chet

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2020, 09:20:42 AM »
Mike, da 61 & 272 huskies get my vote too.   smiley_thumbsup
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Offline steele109

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2020, 10:19:24 AM »
Hi I built a junk pile pm 700. The biggest problem was the rings, they come with thin rings. When I tore down The original cylinder the rings had about 40 thousand end gap.So I ordered a new set of original set of mcculloch rings they had about 25 thousands new. I wound up changing pistons (used a little red barn piston thick rings) the rings on that piston had a end gap of 15 thousands,so put a set of cabers on it (7 thousands) glued it together with three bond.It runs great haven't had to adjust the carb since initial adjustment. I took the base gasket out,it has 170 lbs compression. Oh and give yourself credit your a great mechanic. You need to take one apart put it back together and see who gets the last laugh you or Bob.

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2020, 10:52:37 AM »
Now you have me confused .You mentioned a base gasket but that saw, pm 700 Mac  design it's a split crank case doesn't have a removable cylinder like a Stihl .Am I confused here ? ???

Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2020, 12:35:39 PM »
I really think saws find people and people find saws. With the right operators, any decently designed saws can sing.

It really comes down to the owner/operator of the saw. I have over 40+yrs on a hard working Jonsereds 80 that started out its life with me as a back-up loggin' saw in smaller timber. And it just won't die. How much of that is me and how much is the integrity of the saw, who can say??

I kept buying J'reds after that and they've never let me down. On the contrary, they continue to surprise and regale me. Once I sort through what PO's have done to them, they just go, go, go and go.

So for me, that 'mystical saw' will always be the 80. But....watching YouTube vids of other 80's running, they seem lacking in WOT and quick revving. They sound dull and lackluster....so I dunno. I have enough parts to build another one and I suspect I will at some point just to compare.

My 90 by comparison is not the wild beast my 80 is, but does have a little more noticeable grunt when you lean into it. 

Kevin

Offline Spike60

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2020, 06:50:34 AM »
"Bath tub caulk"? OMG. I wish I wasn't sipping my coffee when I read that. Now that my key board and nose are clean.......

There's another factor that ya gotta consider here. Everybody in this thread knows how to tune a carb, among other things. It's a skill that guys in the saw hobby world kind of take for granted. Heck, most of you guys are WAY better saw techs than can be found in many dealerships. So, it's not just what old saws still run, but what old saws can still run reliably in the hands of an owner who really doesn't have any wrenching skills? Don't even know how to sharpen a chain.

Mike and Chet are right about the Husky 61's and family. Lotta those old white tops still out there cutting wood. The 61's and Jonny 625's generally lived easier lives than their XP counter parts. I see more 670's still in use than 266XP's. The intake boots on the 670's were superior to the 266 intake block set up on the 266, especially the early ones that were still being called SE's. But for some reason, there's an awful lot of 630's out there yet, and they mostly share the 162/266 intake. (the blocks all look the same, but hardware changed over the years to combat heat transfer to the carb.)

As far as the old Jonnys go, there is a surprising number of them still in use. Primarily 49SP's and 70E's. Some 52E's and 451's. Part of the equation of course is Jonsered was very popular around here, so those saws sold in good numbers. But guys hang on to them cause they still work. And they just feel like a quality built machine to people who don't like plastic. Plus, they don't feel as dated as nearly everything else from that era. They still have a fairly contemporary feel when running them.

There's probably always going to be Homelite XL12/SXL saws in use. Numbers sold, and far less fussy than the yellow junk. The XL-925 family is just as good, but you don't see them as often. My experience with the Mac's is similar to Walt's, and beyond the fact that they have a cool sound, I just can't warm up to those things. And unlike the rock solid Homelites, you just don't see them out in the real world anymore.

Or, how about saws in serious/pro use that see absolutely ZERO maintenance until it lands on my counter? 372, 372, 372, and more 372's. :)


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Offline Real1shepherd

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2020, 10:19:31 AM »
I've never been disappointed with the old J'reds I own. Like there always comes a point with some mechanical devices that you say, "Why did they design it like that...it's just a compromise and cutting corners." I never really say that with the old J'reds. Never look down at something broken that was designed cheap. I just have to fix items that have succumbed to age/wear.

Now after Electrolux first waved their 'magic' wand, that wasn't always so.

Kevin

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2020, 02:02:43 PM »
You could probably find good saws by nearly all manufacturers and lemons if you look hard enough .Even Poulan who made the less expensive saws sold under Sears and Roebuck at one time made some better grade units .Both Homelite and McCulloch had some good and some not so good .I'm sure J-Red and Partner were the same as well as Stihl and Husqvarna .

Offline Spike60

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2020, 06:48:28 PM »
So, how about have a little fun and expand the discussion. Let's say that you had to pick just one brand of old saws to live with to handle all of your cutting needs. Old, being 1980 vintage there abouts. No new saws for back ups. Gotta get it done with the oldies; day and day out. It ain't about cool, it's about tools that you can count on. Going back that far, parts are going to be NLA for most everything. American brands like Homelite and Mac likely have more parts online than the European companies. But parts availabilty and how often you are gonna need parts are somewhat different things. Saws that just keep going like the energizer bunny have less of a need for parts. There's no wrong answers here. Everyone's opinion is correct based on their own experience and preference.

The old Jonsereds are the easy choice for me. Well built and easy to work on. Decent AV at a time when most saws had no AV at all. They are not fussy, and don't have a lot of nagging issues that constantly need attention. And as I said earlier, they really don't feel like old saws to me. I can run them all day and not feel the need to grab something newer. Plus they are easily reliable enough that there's no need to pack any newer saws for back up. And there's enough models to cover the spectrum of whatever I need to do.

2nd place for me might actually be Homelite over Husky. More options there and there are countless dead saws around to serve as parts donars. IMO, Homelite has it all over McCulloch. Even the hardware they are screwed together with is robust vs the dinky screws that hold the Mac's together.

Your opinion may be different; but it would be fun to hear what everyone has to say. :)
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2020, 07:26:26 PM »
Mine would be a Pioneer, simple, reliable and easy to work on. Give me a P26 and I'm happy, if I need anything bigger than a P41 somebody else can cut it. J'reds are scarce here.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline weimedog

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Re: Yellow & Red Metal
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2020, 12:15:10 AM »
I guess the action speaks louder than words applies here, I still have my old 925 and sometimes IT's the back up as I can think of just one time in 20 years it let me down, and that was because it has sat for a few years and needed some rubber parts. Right now it sits along side a couple of 70e's and an eighty.

One brand... has to be Homelite although I would like it to be Jonsered.
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)


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