Support brackets for cantilevered counter

[samandothers]

We plan a bar counter between kitchen and great room.  The bar will be raised sitting on a knee wall that extends 4 to 6" above the kitchen counter level.  The red marks are to give a general idea of where the brackets may run.  There will be more than drawn.



 

The brackets would be 'L' shaped and screwed to the knee wall on the sink side then pass over top the knee wall and screwed to the top of the knee wall.   This should anchor them to support the slab used for the bar.  The brackets would extend out to within 2 or 3" of the slab edge.  The bar will probably be more rectangular than arc shaped and extend about 12" beyond the knee wall and extend/over hang back toward the sink about 3/4 to 1 1/2", but not to interfere with the faucet.  The bar is planned to be 1 1/2 maybe 2" thick hickory attached from the bottom through the L bracket with screws.  I have some hickory air drying now (over 2 years) that is 12/4 that I'll have run through a kiln and work down to remove some cupping.  

My question is about the L brackets.   My thoughts are to use steel L brackets 2 1/2" wide.  One on each end of the bar 4" from each post and then every 16 to 20" in between.  I was not sure of thickness 1/4", 3/8" or 1/2".   I would appreciate some thoughts on these brackets and thickness needed!

[mike_belben]

The style of L bracket will greatly influence its necessary thickness.  It could be sheetmetal in one layout or require 3/8 in another.  


Are you planning to bend a strip of metal 90* to make the L?  If so.. Will it be gusseted or braced in any way?  There are tons of ways to do it.


You could use 3/16 thick x 2" flat stock for the screw flanges and weld in 1/8" triangle gussets or doubled 1/16th gussets.  Or they could be hollow triangles with round bar gusseting like old metal flat tresses.  They could be angle iron sandwiching plate trainagles to make a dual strip of screw flanges.  Theres just so many ways thatll all work well.  


Unless yer gonna park a train on it or love thick metal, .500" plate is overkill in any formation except pressbrake bent 90* flat strips with zero other support.. Just let the bend hold it all up.  The bend could be cut and weld instead of press brake too.  But itll probably flex without a triangle brace of some sort. 

[Larry]

Not sure how wide the wood slab is which could make a difference in design.  Will you have folks on bar stools eating there?  Don't want one person bouncing the bar while somebody else is trying to stab peas.

Since you wanted metal, my first thoughts is maybe 3" wide, 1/4"-3/8" thick.  Probably stainless or powder coated.




A lot of fabricators can make the curved piece easy enough.  I would do it on my Hossfeld in a few minutes.

I would also consider making wood braces, something steam bent would really be cool!  Don't know what your base cabinet looks like so that's another consideration on tying the design together.

[samandothers]

Thanks for the feedback Mike and Larry.  

I would have to use a fabricator of purchase a premade bracket.  I would like to avoid the support in the corner of the bracket if possible.  The reason for this is it would be used by folks sitting at stools and their legs up under the bar slab. 

The sink cabinet will back up to a knee wall that will be high enough to raise the bar slab top to about 42" of so.  This knee wall will be the support of the bar slab that is about 16 to 17" wide.  The slab will rest on top of a 2x4 with 12" over hang one direction about about 3/4" to 1 1/2".

Brackets I was looking at are two flat steel 2 1/2" wide welded at the joint of the L.  The long leg runs horizontal over and rests on the 2x4.  The shorter side runs vertical down the knee wall face on the opposite side of the longer over hang.  Screws are then placed in the vertical face of the knee wall and on top into the 2x.  I had planned to place these about 4" off the ends of the slab and every 16 to 20 inches across the bar slab.

I have seen brackets with 1/2", 3/8" and 1/4" plate for the top longer leg.  The vertical leg a is usually 1/4".  I am wondering what is the best thickness of the top plate and can I get by without a corbel supporting the overhanging 12".  

[gspren]

Something I've used because I have/had a lot of is 2" channel iron, it has about a 3/16" web thickness and the legs are 1", if you have or get it cut and weld and use a 2-3" triangle gusset to help keep it square while welding. Use/weld it flat so it only sticks down 1" from the slab, lag heads will be inside the channel.

[PoginyHill]

I think 3/8" bar would be sufficient. Anything in the corner would add to the stiffness - even if it's a 1 or 2" wide bar welded at a 45.

[DR_Buck]

We have a 17" over hang on our island.   I used purchased brackets that are 2 -1/2" wide and 1/2" thick.    They are flat and fasten to the top of the cabinets and extend out 14".    I have them spaced 18-24 inches apart.    I did not want to take any risk with a near $2000 piece of granite.

These are the L shaped version of what I used.  >>  Hidden Granite Countertop L Bracket | Granite Countertop Support - IronSupports



This is the only photo I have showing how mine were installed. 







This is the boss posing with here new counter tops.



 

[samandothers]

Thanks everyone for posting suggestions as it does help with thought process!  If I had the fabrication skills and equipment I might attempt to creat something.  However, lacking both I'll support some one with those skills! 

I will go with something similar to what Dr Buck posted.  I found a vendor that has an L bracket with 1/2" top horizontal plate welded to 1/4" vertical legs.  The vertical leg is 4" and I'll order 12" top leg.  Fortunately we'll pass by the vendor site on our way to visit the daughter prior to Christmas!  At least that saves shipping 7 of the things! 

Dr Buck,  that is a nice counter top!  Hopefully after all this the boss will be pleased here as well. 

[limbwood]

i have put in several kitchens with islands. i use a flat piece of 3/8x3 a ft long recessed in the knee wall and 4 3 inch screws down in the wall every 2 ft for granite tops

[samandothers]

Thanks limbwood,

I ordered the brackets I described above.  They will be placed about every 18" with the end ones 4 to 6 inches from the post.

[Brad_bb]

My first thought was Fastcap's speed brace and Stealth speed brace.  Check out the videos they have on them.  The stealth version (second link) may be the ticket for you.
SpeedBrace - FastCap

Stealth SpeedBrace - FastCap

[DR_Buck]

My first thought was Fastcap's speed brace and Stealth speed brace.  Check out the videos they have on them.  The stealth version (second link) may be the ticket for you.
SpeedBrace - FastCap

Stealth SpeedBrace - FastCap

Top video they mount like the ones I used on my island.

[samandothers]

Brad thanks for link.  At this time I have ordered some 'L' shaped brackets with 4" and 12" legs.




This shows the knee wall from the kitchen side, as if standing in front of the kitchen sink looking into the great room over the bar counter.  There will be another 2x4 on top.  The brackets I ordered will have 4" vertical legs that screw into the kitchen side of the top layers of the 2x4's then the horizontal plate will extend over the 2x4's into the great room and screw down from the top into the 2x4's.  The bar slab will the sit on top. Screws will be ran up from the bottom through the horizontal plate and into the bar slab.... if all goes right.