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Author Topic: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest  (Read 723 times)

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Offline Nick585

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Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« on: February 10, 2021, 05:53:13 PM »
How does western NY black walnut compare to Iowa, Ohio, Illinois, Missouri?  

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2021, 06:12:23 PM »
Now that is a good question that I of course can't answer . What I do know is when I started sawing [1980] our walnut was much darker and the browner wood from other areas was considered more desirable. After almost 30 wet years our walnut is much lighter in color with a huge sap band. Also in certain soils the walnut is redish in color.  The variation in color of all wood is interesting.

Online Walnut Beast

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2021, 12:01:32 AM »
Midwest is the best of course 😂. When I went to the Walnut Council national meeting a couple years ago two Foresters said Nebraska walnut was better than Kansas Walnut. Thatís what they said Doc not me 😂

Online Walnut Beast

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2021, 12:19:32 AM »
I canít remember the exact details but a individual donated his place in Indiana or Ohio that had many beautiful black walnut trees on it to the Walnut Council. He had a good sum of money that he left to his wife and daughter and sold 26 walnut trees that he had groomed and managed for years to the highest bidder and that bid was 260,000 before he passed away. I seen the pictures of the trees and they where incredible. Massive and straight as a pencil the length of a semi bed.  He wanted to make sure his wife and daughter was taken care of and his Farm preserved by the Walnut Council. Iíve got a walnut bowl he made that was donated and on the silent auction that Iíll post a picture of sometime 

Offline Satamax

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2021, 04:42:41 AM »
Now that is a good question that I of course can't answer . What I do know is when I started sawing [1980] our walnut was much darker and the browner wood from other areas was considered more desirable. After almost 30 wet years our walnut is much lighter in color with a huge sap band. Also in certain soils the walnut is redish in color.  The variation in color of all wood is interesting.
Well, true or legend. 
But i have heard that if you want darker walnut, without the sap band. You have to let it sit few months or years before cutting. That is on French walnut. Not north american ones. But it might be the same? 
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Offline logbyr

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2021, 07:13:12 AM »
In General WNY walnut has a wider sap ring than upper midwest walnut.    I also find the trees have more stress cracks on the ends.
Not everything has wide sap and stress but it seems more prevalent in WNY.  Ingrown bark pockets also can show up more here.   Thats something u rarely see in upper midwest.    If u find trees in the deep valley's they can be very good quality.    Good color, texture,tall and clean   Bot 3 logs (1900bf) from WNY this fall.    They sliced out amazing.
If one sawed 100mbf of sawlogs from WNY and 100mbf from IA, you could expect better grade recovery from the IA logs.   U would not see worms or  peck as in some warmer climate grown walnut.  

Offline Autocar

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2021, 08:38:34 AM »
46 years ago I cut for a small saw mill a few miles north of my place and he always wanted any walnut cut in the dark of the moon. Said it would be darker  :-\.
Bill

Online mike_belben

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2021, 09:05:52 AM »
oh I'm sure plenty of walnut gets cut at night. 
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Offline Trackerbuddy

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 12:58:14 PM »
From what I've seen and heard the farther north you go the lighter the Walnut. 
Iíve worked with wood from northern Wisconsin at the 45th parallel and wood from Ohio at the 39th parallel and the Ohio wood is darker

Offline alan gage

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 02:48:42 PM »
Bought some machinery from an old guy in central Iowa who had run a commercial sawmill for years and he said the walnut buyers always told him Iowa walnut was the best. They could very well could have pandered to all their customers in every state though.

I've sawn some of my own and bought quite a bit of old rough sawn walnut from a couple local farm auctions and have been impressed with the overall color. I have some commercially steamed walnut boards in the shop that are pretty but all the same brown with maybe a bit of a gray cast. The local walnut is sometimes very dark, rarely lighter colored, and often times has some red/purple tints to it.

Alan
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Offline scsmith42

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 03:52:18 PM »
From what I've milled, fast grown walnut has much wider sapwood bands than slow growth (yard tree versus forest tree).
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Offline kantuckid

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 05:54:30 PM »
When I lived in KS, my home state, there were a couple of commercial walnut mills nearby. Now in KY I'm near even bigger mills that get quite a bit of walnut. Also nearby is a veneer plant that's been there longer than I've been in KY-they do mostly walnut and some cherry. None of those would be where they were if not for enough of the right wood?
persoanlly i see the main difference as any particular trees specific growth spot. On my own land the soils very thin but I have one gem dandy back in the head of the holler-limb free for a long ways and tap roots happy back there in a shaded lifestyle. 
Kan=Kansas;tuck=Kentucky;kid=what I'm not

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2021, 08:48:50 AM »
oh I'm sure plenty of walnut gets cut at night.
They use a very special exhaust system.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 08:55:24 AM »
46 years ago I cut for a small saw mill a few miles north of my place and he always wanted any walnut cut in the dark of the moon. Said it would be darker  :-\.
That is a subject in itself. Then man who got me interested in sawmills would speak of the moon phase felling. Another old German friend has it in a book he brought from Germany [in German]. Our member, Long time Lurker, has spoken of this also.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2021, 09:00:33 AM »
Now that is a good question that I of course can't answer . What I do know is when I started sawing [1980] our walnut was much darker and the browner wood from other areas was considered more desirable. After almost 30 wet years our walnut is much lighter in color with a huge sap band. Also in certain soils the walnut is redish in color.  The variation in color of all wood is interesting.
Well, true or legend.
But i have heard that if you want darker walnut, without the sap band. You have to let it sit few months or years before cutting. That is on French walnut. Not north american ones. But it might be the same?
Yes the dark heart will stain the sap, sometimes and sometimes blotchy but you have to suffer the deep end cracks, insect attacks and so on. Also you may loose the bark and that's never good.

Offline GullyBog

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2021, 07:37:30 PM »
I've also been told that the dark color moves out into the sap wood after felling.  Moodnacreek's logic about end cracks probably trumps the benefit of more color, but on a tree with a wide sap ring I would try it anyway.  Waiting for a tree to grow old or die isn't for everybody but that's the way I like to do it.  I think the walnut tree is going to put a lot of that color into its sapwood when it goes into decline because it won't need as much water and it will be more prone to insects, fungus, decay etc...  
As for the original question, I've only milled walnut in Virginia but I've seen more color in the mountains than the hills.  It will be interesting to hear if anyone has actually seen the inside of these beautiful trees on both sides of the Mississippi.
There might be a little dust on the butt log, but don't let if fool ya bout what's inside

Offline Larry

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2021, 10:13:38 PM »
When I lived in north Missouri I was close to American Walnut in St. Joseph Missouri.  They are really a big outfit and at one time were producing most of the gunstocks for Remington.  They also sliced veneer and did a bunch of other things, but it was all walnut.

They started in the 1800's something and went through several problem periods.  Several owners over the years.  When I was living there they were always a good company.  They gave tours of the plant quite often.  There veneer buyers also gave classes occasionally on how to produce veneer trees and what to look for in a veneer log.  I got to attend a couple of the classes, one was at former member Kansas (rip) sawmill.

The consensus was good walnut can be found anyplace.  At the time they would go out 400 miles for the good stuff.  On average Iowa walnut was always at the top of the list.  The reasons I heard, was a short growing season and fertile ground.

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Offline stavebuyer

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2021, 04:12:07 AM »
In my experience sapwood is tied to growth rate. Suppressed or stressed trees will have a very small sapwood ring. The bark on stressed trees is usually is almost flat and flakey. Pretty common on creekbank trees that have had their roots undercut and washed away by the creek. Young and fast growing trees tend to have a large amount of sapwood. 

Walnut that has died standing/blown over can be 100% "heart". 

Online mike_belben

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Re: Eastern walnut Vs Midwest
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2021, 04:58:01 AM »
S&W used to do grips inhouse from walnut and cherry.  When they discontinued all the blanks went in the dumpster and boy did we burn alot of it in a coal stove when i was a kid.  Looking back i bet that was the most expensive free heat we ever scrounged up. 
Revelation 3:20


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