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Author Topic: New to felling trees  (Read 2029 times)

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Offline Sauna freak

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2021, 08:43:09 AM »
Training is a tough one. Unless you have a professional mentor or can take a good class, you're almost better off learning on your own. Many who think they are experts because they are still alive can in reality be very dangerous with a saw and will pass on many bad practices. You'll see this even with some professional cutters.  I was fortunate to learn directly from Soren Ericsson when GOL was just getting started in Wisconsin. Look for his video on limbing, very informative. Husqvarna puts out some good video on felling, and if you can find one of the old manuals from Jonsered or Husqvarna they have good pictographs of the different cuts used in felling. Start small, and work your way up to more challenging timber. You went cheap on the saw, so I doubt you'll invest in PPE, but it can literally save your life. Ever locate somebody's husband on a welfare check, to find him bled out on the landing with a severed femoral artery?  I have, and it ain't pretty. I've also seen a running saw contact the same portion of one's anatomy protected by chaps, and that didn't even draw blood. 

A 24" bar would be a good match for your saw and timber not much over 30.  This will give you enough length, but still maneuverability for bucking and limbing. After becoming proficient with undercutting, bore cutting and pivots, I've found this a good size for occasional larger trees. If you're cutting mostly larger trees, go longer.
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Offline Skeans1

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2021, 09:23:27 AM »
Why GOL why back bore every tree with a scratch face? GOL is a good way to make some way too confident in a skill they do not have and it will make you more tired at the end of the day.

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2021, 09:47:58 AM »
Why GOL why back bore every tree with a scratch face? GOL is a good way to make some way too confident in a skill they do not have and it will make you more tired at the end of the day.
Skeans, you have mentioned this a few times before and your point is well taken.  However, for the lone wolf out there who has no mentor and nobody to teach and coach him a person should get whatever proper training they can. It is a good start. If a person gets cocky they will get in trouble but hopefully the training gets them going well enough to start learning how things might go wrong. There are many fancy ways to drop good trees, but these require a very good teacher that can explain the physics and teach how the various cuts are chosen. Some good training, whatever is available is always better than no training, I took GOL up 3 levels, I certainly don't back bore every tree, not even close, don't use wedges unless that's what is really needed. 
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline Timberline

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2021, 10:45:57 AM »
I really appreciate the replies, everyone. Good stuff. Im learning a lot. Seems like there have been a couple replies recommending a 24 bar for the big saw to start. I like that idea, then maybe get a 36 down the road that I can use to rip larger logs as someone has mentioned that wont fit on the mill.

I havent found much info regarding classes yet, but havent had much time to look. Ill keep looking.  

Saunafreak, yes Im planning to get proper safety equipment before sawing with these new saws. I didnt have thousands to spend on saws, but Im definitely not going going to run them without the proper equipment. I plan to get helmet with ear and face protection, chaps, and use steel toe boots. There are some sets of gear that are probably China made that I saw, as well as husky homeowner and pro. Is the Chinese stuff junk?

Offline Old Greenhorn

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2021, 11:05:16 AM »
DO NOT go cheap on your safety gear. Get gear that is tested and approved for the chain speeds you are running. Take some time to learn the standards.
 Also, keep in mind a big CC chainsaw has a lot of gyroscopic action with a big bar on it. This takes some getting used to for a new user. Work hard at developing good habits, you will need them.
Tom Lindtveit, Woodsman Forest Products
Oscar 328 Band Mill, Husky 450, 372 (Clone), Mule 3010, and too many hand tools. :) Retired and trying to make a living to stay that way. NYLT Certified.
OK, maybe I am the woodcutter now.
I can work with wood, but I am NOT a Woodworker, yet.

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2021, 12:11:57 PM »
The class I referred to is S212 Wildland Fire Chainsaws.  Try googling that name with michigan in the search and see if its offered anywhere around.  The class teaches all about saws and how to use them to buck and fell.  I would also recommend to get another, smaller saw.  Something with an 18" bar is a good size to be a smaller saw compared to your 660 and better for learning to saw.  Even someone who is experienced and skilled enough to use a 660 will have a smaller saw to use too.  
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Offline Timberline

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2021, 03:03:38 PM »
DO NOT go cheap on your safety gear. Get gear that is tested and approved for the chain speeds you are running. Take some time to learn the standards.
 Also, keep in mind a big CC chainsaw has a lot of gyroscopic action with a big bar on it. This takes some getting used to for a new user. Work hard at developing good habits, you will need them.
Ok, I hear you there. I guess when I was referring to Chinese stuff it probably is made in China but its from Forester. Looks like 3 levels of Husqvarna gear. The pro kit is about $200 but I dont mind paying if its the best. I do want to get some good gear.

Offline alan gage

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2021, 10:29:05 AM »
A good set of videos from Husqvarna:







And a very good book on the subject:

Professional Timber Falling (Book) by Douglas Dent: Amazon.com: Books

Alan

Timberking B-16, a few chainsaws from small to large, and a Bobcat 873 Skidloader.

Offline ALaff

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2021, 01:15:22 PM »
I agree with the others...someone with some experience can take out a 30" tree with a 14" saw.  It's all in the techniques used.  I started with a Husky 455 and a Sthil MS 260.  But the best exposure was through a local organization NH Timber Owners Assn.  They had hands on chainsaw courses and tree felling courses; which was great because you had a handful of pros taking the course for their annual recertification and they know their stuff.  Also check your local Cooperative Extension.  

Also bucking with a big saw sucks...the lighter the better.
And always wear the chaps; *DanG mine look like someone attacked me, but they saved my ass a few times.

Online HemlockKing

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2021, 01:35:27 PM »
Why GOL why back bore every tree with a scratch face? GOL is a good way to make some way too confident in a skill they do not have and it will make you more tired at the end of the day.
Skeans, you have mentioned this a few times before and your point is well taken.  However, for the lone wolf out there who has no mentor and nobody to teach and coach him a person should get whatever proper training they can. It is a good start. If a person gets cocky they will get in trouble but hopefully the training gets them going well enough to start learning how things might go wrong. There are many fancy ways to drop good trees, but these require a very good teacher that can explain the physics and teach how the various cuts are chosen. Some good training, whatever is available is always better than no training, I took GOL up 3 levels, I certainly don't back bore every tree, not even close, don't use wedges unless that's what is really needed.
No matter the skill or experience I gain I will ALWAYS remain humble and keep in the back of my mind I'm walking a fine line between life and death while out in the woods alone running a saw, every day, I try to acknowledge it might be my last, if I keep reminding myself this it keeps me from doing risky things and being a "bad ass", if I notice I'm starting to cut corners in my work and even the slightest tired/gassed I take a break. This mentality has probably saved me a couple times.

Oh more advice to a new feller, GET YER FRIGGEN PPE, helmet, muffs and chaps/steel toe/saw boots, for a long while I went with just wearing safety glasses, I decides one day I wanna start wearing one of those cool husky or stihl helmet setups with the mesh screen, 2 days after I got it, what do you know? BONK on my head from a snag tree that let loose a massive 2 inch+ branch, some how I managed to navigate without getting hit in the head previously, I would never go into the woods without that stuff on anymore.
Keep yer stick on the ice!- Red Green

Offline lshobie

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2021, 09:25:24 AM »
The main question is that in your steep learning curve and it's not a matter of if a feller will have an accident  - it's when the feller has an accident do you want to do it with an 660 or something a little more respectable.  If you are an airline pilot you make enough to buy a small saw to start and then buy bigger when the need arises.

Think about it this way....what is the average lifespan of a non IFR rated pilot in IFR conditions?

JMO.

Louie
Clark 664C, Woodmizer LT40, Alaskan Mill, Huskys, Stihls, and echos.

Offline Timberline

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #31 on: April 02, 2021, 06:57:21 PM »
The main question is that in your steep learning curve and it's not a matter of if a feller will have an accident  - it's when the feller has an accident do you want to do it with an 660 or something a little more respectable.  If you are an airline pilot you make enough to buy a small saw to start and then buy bigger when the need arises.

Think about it this way....what is the average lifespan of a non IFR rated pilot in IFR conditions?

JMO.

Louie
Haha I hear you there! What do you think of using the G5800 (54cc saw) to use as the smaller saw to learn on? 

Offline Timberline

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #32 on: April 02, 2021, 07:01:58 PM »
I purchased the husky helmet and technical chaps and technical gloves. From what I could see they seemed like the best I could get a hold of. Also trying to buy some Oregon class 1 boots. 

I got the G5800 up and running with an 18 inch bar. I was going to get a 24 inch bar for the 660. This brought up a question: it seems in that bar length you can get low kickback full chisel or semi chisel that is not low kickback. Semi chisel is inherently lower kickback, right? Which one am I better off with, or is there a way to get low kickback semi chisel?

Offline Skeans1

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #33 on: April 02, 2021, 07:13:27 PM »
Ill play devils advocate why go plastic for a hard hat when you can get aluminum? Which is more likely to save you from a widow maker as well as reflect heat/rain? Boots different parts of the country you wear different things but my personal preference is caulk boots for doing work around timber youre not going to slide. The difference between the two will be the depth gauge design the low kick back will have a bumper so the depth gauge wont full allow the cutter to engage the wood well cutting. A far as cutters go theres three main cutters available round chisel, round semi chisel, and square chisel.

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2021, 07:30:15 PM »
I guess low kickback chain is a good thing and I dont want to short change safety but i think its better to learn to avoid kickback and use regular chain. Id like to see others opinions on this. 

Offline firefighter ontheside

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #35 on: April 02, 2021, 07:53:51 PM »
You can very well still have a kickback with reduced kickback chain.  No matter what chain you use, you should be very aware of what causes kickback.  The reduced kickback chain is not any better for cutting your forehead with.  If a person is never going to use a saw enough to be safe with other chain, then the reduced kickback is for them.  I always had it on my 025 and it cut just fine.  I can even bore with it, but not as fast.
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Online btulloh

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #36 on: April 02, 2021, 08:56:34 PM »
All very true, FFOTS.  No type of chain replaces experience and training.  

It sounds to me like the OP is going to follow the right course.  Just the fact that he's here and asking for good input means a lot.  Nothing beats good training and working with someone who knows proper techniques.  

I've known a lot of pilots and they all seemed to have one thing in common:  a commitment to following procedure and knowing their limits.  Even the hot shots I have known are like that.  They can go out on the edge, but they know where the edge is.  A 54 cc saw and some experience and training will be a good launching point.  Running a big saw can come later.  I see this turning out well.


Offline Timberline

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #37 on: April 02, 2021, 11:22:24 PM »
Skeans1, I wasnt aware you could get aluminum hats. I did a quick search and couldnt find any. Is there a brand you like?

btulloh, yes my thoughts exactly of starting with the small saw, get training before felling anything and wait to use the big saw before becoming competent. Ibe learned a lot from you guys already and excited to learn more. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

Sounds like everyone agrees I am better off learning to use standard chain safely. Im thinking of getting some regular semi chisel chain. Sounds like its easier to sharpen and stays sharp longer.

Offline Ianab

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #38 on: April 03, 2021, 12:03:41 AM »
I've known a lot of pilots and they all seemed to have one thing in common:  a commitment to following procedure and knowing their limits.  Even the hot shots I have known are like that.  They can go out on the edge, but they know where the edge is.  A 54 cc saw and some experience and training will be a good launching point.  Running a big saw can come later.  I see this turning out well.


Pilot analogy. You don't start out in a B787.  You learn in a Cessna first . The aerodynamic rules and weather is the same, just a lot less risk. Like cutting a 12" tree vs a 48" one. 

Watch the decent videos like the Husky and GOL ones. Then grab a smaller saw and drop some small trees for firewood. You can book learn as much as you want, but it takes a bit of practice to drop large trees safely. It's not exactly rocket science, but there are traps / hazards / mistakes you can make.  

LIl (Wife / Kindy Teacher) actually has an official certificate in chainsaw operation.  Not the same level as a professional logger, and the instructor passed her, but said she needed more practical. But it was a 2 day course that went into bore cutting etc. Designed for farmers / firewood cutters etc and paid for by the Govt Accident Insurance. Buddy needed 4 to put on the course, so Lil got roped in to make up the numbers.

 ACC had noticed a lot of chainsaw and tree injuries, so put on those free courses to try and reduce them.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Online mike_belben

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Re: New to felling trees
« Reply #39 on: April 03, 2021, 12:55:32 AM »
Just think of every saw as an alligator.  Whether big or small, you hold onto any size alligator just as tight.  
Psalm 37:16


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