Making it through another year '21-'23

[Old Greenhorn]

Well, my definition of a great day is one in which I can get in at least 8 hours of work undisturbed by the world. Today was one of those. I think I got in 9 or 10 hours, but who cares? All I know is it felt good. I didn't even have lunch and didn't miss it. I didn't miss a nap either, which I do on most days I don't get one.
 I got my sanding done this morning as mentioned, then I headed down and with some minor distractions and a fight with the stupidest dust collector I have ever met (I will never buy a Jet dust collector). I got to work on the Slabmizer getting the benches flat. I tried Bill's method of hand feeding, light depth of cut with a high federate. This means manually pushing the head. I tried to get a little video but holding the phone, pushing the head, and working the joystick made it pretty messy. None the less, here's what you get.

Flattening slabs on the woodmizer slabmizer - YouTube

Anyway, got them done pretty quick, but Bill is away with the family so I did my part to check on the dogs and chickens and I had a run in with a red fox, but no appropriate tool close enough to hand to deal with him. so throwing stones and yelling had to do for today. (tomorrow is another one though!)
 Any way got the bench slabs home, unloaded into the second bay and started mixing epoxy. Of course just as I hit critical temp, my helper showed up, so we quick flipped the top and I started pouring on the benches. It was a tad rude, but the epoxy waits for no one when it's hot. ;D Anyway. those benches took a lot of epoxy and I didn't get everything filled. Though I would have enough for both benches and the top, but no. 
 Had to stop for dinner anyway.  Went back out, mixed more epoxy, poured more and just had enough to cover all the cracks I had on all the tops and I think they are filled, so I can sand and flip tomorrow. One of the bench slabs was a center pith cut and has some severe drying cracks, I think going all through. I suspect some issues all though the process. 




 

Yeah, there is some work here. I still have to flip these and work on the other side tomorrow after sanding. The other side is just as bad, maybe worse, I forget. I also have a lot of edge reshaping to do. There is some punky stuff and I need to figure how to remove it and keep it 'natural'.



 

They go deep, nearly clean through. Lots of sand but this is gonna be one epic picnic table. :D

 Tomorrow is another day.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I am whooped.  Another 9-10 hour day today and it was pretty hot which added to the joy. ;D
 I am moving fast ont ehi table and want to finish it as fast as I can and the drying times will allow. I am not going to get too hung up on perfect finishes because it is, after all, a picnic table that will live outside, not a dining room table (that's coming up). But I am holding the line on not taking shortcuts. I am filling all cracks, knots, and void with epoxy to stabilize it and keep air pockets from living under the finish and wreck havoc when season change.
 Since I have the top and two bench slabs in the shop now I jump from one to the next doing the fills, sanding, edge work, flipping, repeating. Consequently I spend little time waiting for things to set up, I just work on a different piece. I am doing things at a faster rate and jumping around more than usual. Flipping that top requires two peoples, so I work around that as much as I can. Now I just put a first coat on the top when I have yet to even final sand the bottom and get the last epoxy fills leveled off. I also did the edges on all parts because some of the areas are a bit 'soft' and I wanted to start getting coats on the edges to firm them up. I couldn't resist and did a coat on the top because the wood has a few soft spots right in the middle. Hopefully that will seal it and subsequent coats will build up to that shine I want.



 

It's WO and it came up with that creamy soft brown look I really like. I've got a bit of herringbone bookmatching going on at one end, but it doesn't carry through the whole top.


 

The glueline is not perfect, but it's a picnic table. Any gaps were filled with epoxy. Those weird lines in the above photo are from the overhead lights.
 The edges on this are challenging and it remains to be seen if I can pull this off.



 

 For me this is an exercise is calling it when it's 'good enough'. I am making this for Bill's client and he is already having fits that I am being too picky. I have my standards. I have seen the table he made for himself on the same legs in his own yard. The first year it looked super, but now, well, not so much. Certainly it could be re-finished and be slick again. Geez they are 3" slabs, there is plenty to work with. I get it, he is concerned about what he will charge the client because this will not be the type of picnic table you get at HD or a roadside seller of such things. But it should last for decades with a little bit of care every few years. Still, how much can you charge for a 500# picnic table?  :D
 I took a shower after quitting at 8pm and am falling asleep as I type this. Tomorrow is another day. I am anxious to get back to work.

[Hilltop366]

Looks nice, for a future experiment wondering if running a circular saw with guide board in between the two slabs to kerf both sides at the same time would give you a tight glue line with little work.

[aigheadish]

I considered asking if you wanted to sell your mill when we were there... I'd imagine you'd have plenty of local offers but let me know if not, I may be interested. Or I'll trade you a motorcycle?

[Old Greenhorn]

Hilltop, I had thought about kerfing it, but the planer worked out really well. The photos don't really show the joint well and there are some issues with the wood integrity along that glue line that I could not avoid. Gluing and clamping 70# slabs is a bit beyond what I am set up for so I am pushing it on clamps, flat glueup table, etc.  The defining thing for me is that my saw won't go clean through a 2.75" slab, I can only clear a tad over 2" so I still would have had a compromise edge. I have wanted to try that, and I will when I get something thinner, sounds like a slick way to pull it off. I am using a 1960's skill saw that still works like a champ, but maybe an upgrade is in order, but it needs a bigger blade before I will consider it. I have started looking in the past week. I am also thinking about a biscuit jointer.

 Austin, we should have talked about it. I am still on the fence with the issue. If I do put it up for sale I would list it for a silly price hoping to find somebody in a hurry, like $4k which is high in my opinion, but retired guys need the money, at least I do.. But I think it's not unreasonable. However I would not be comfortable taking that from a friend and frankly, you add just a little more and you have an LT15 which is a MUCH better machine, by a long shot. Better to wait, spend a few more bucks and have a real machine. But that's my opinion. Besides, 14 hours (x2) is a long way to go to pick up a second rate mill. ;D

As far as the current build goes: I am pushing way too much to get this done this week. It IS just a picnic table. I have filled all the voids so the finish should hold nicely, but I am slapping on urethane as fast as each coat is nearly dry, and I am not happy with that. I am figuring the bottoms don't matter as long as they are sealed up well. (3 coats?). The tops I have been slathering it on too, then plan a full 24 hour break for it to harden up, do a light sand, and a thinned out finish coat or two. For the table piece I know which side is the top, so today, with the bottom up, I laid out the leg hole locations and drilled all the screw holes. (I also finally located screws.) I've got 3 coats on the bottom side now, last coat was 20 minutes ago. One of Bill's guys will stop in the morning on his way in at either 6:30 or 7:30 and help me flip it. I can then screw the legs on from the bottom and get it on the floor myself. One bench I know which side is 'up', the other is still undecided. I should be able to make more headway tomorrow. Then Wednesday I have to go do a tree job (nice ERC) with my son, so that day is shot, but the last coats should harden up and I can do a light sanding on all the top sides and final coats on Thursday. No photos today, they all look the same. Of note today for me was that I realized I like the way RiteLeg predrills the hole pattern in their picnic legs. For the top they are laid out with pairs of holes so you could make a table top out of 2x6's, or use less holes for a slab top. It's a tad radicicolous, but I am using all the holes, just because of the weight and a couple of soft spots in the wood, and we will likely be lifting the whole thing by the top with a forklift.
 It will be a pretty nice table, but I am not happy about rushing it like this. An extra week would be great, but I am 'on the road' for a couple of weeks and have to have all the current jobs cleaned up in just a week. Rushing it is probably a good exercise for me because I usually take way too long and think and re-do stuff too much, this will be the other side of the coin for a change. It still beats sitting in a conference room discussing chart colors. :D ;D
 Still anxious to get back at it tomorrow and keep moving.

[WV Sawmiller]

Tom,

   I am not a woodworker so forgive the silly question. Will the epoxy and fill you mention using to fill the voids hold up outside? Since you say it is a picnic table I'm assuming it is outside but as pretty as it is I do hope they have it under a cover of some sort.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well Howard, I am not a woodworker either but I have studied a lot of 'stuff' made by others that is left outside as it ages, including my own stuff. I have found that anything which has an opportunity for air to get trapped under the finish will check, bubble, or crack over our seasonal changes with extreme temp cycles. My theory on this is that the air/moisture underneath the finish expands and contracts and cause the finish to fail. If caught early and re-finished it will last a long time. But I fill all those voids and sand smooth before finishing and find this last a long time without much care beyond cleaning. I have a test table that has lived outside side I need to retrieve just like this which has been enjoying the weather for 4 years now. Last I saw it, all it needed was a washing to get the dried pollen stains off. I will give them some care tips when it is delivered.
 I don't think I would want to cover it in plastic because that might promote other growth, but it should be set so that water will not pool on it after the rain stops. Perhaps a winter cover? I dunno, what do other folks think? Bill thinks they might bring this in the house because it looks so nice, but I haven't seen the place or the client. Best I know is that I think the client lives somewhere on my road. We may just drive the toolcat here, pick it up and deliver it with the Toolcat directly. Gonna need at least 3 guys if we have to carry it more than 6'.  If it is that local, they could call me once a year or so for finish touchups.
 Everything is a learning experience.

[doc henderson]

could adapt some wheels/casters for temp movement.  the customer may want them.  the other issue is UV.  epoxy will move differently than wood, and degrade in uv, but a finish over it that is UV protected should help a lot.  I think it looks great.  thanks for sharing the design.

[aigheadish]

What's the protection technique for when you flip it, Tom? Just a moving blanket or something under it? 

Re: your mill- I can't justify the expense as, for me, the mill would seldom get used, while being lovely to have. I'd considered going the Woodland Mills route for a less expensive mill but that money went elsewhere quickly. For now I'll have to stick with the chainsaw mill which also doesn't get much use. Maybe this weekend. I currently only have at least 4 projects going on and feel like I need something else to take up space...

[Old Greenhorn]

Well I try not to flip it while it's still wet. :D But I put some planed stickers under it that are clean. I do a sealing cost on the top, maybe two, then flip, finish off the bottom. Then flip back and finish the top last so there is little chance of messing it up and further.

 Yes, woodland would be a better way to go I am sure.

[Old Greenhorn]

could adapt some wheels/casters for temp movement.  the customer may want them.  the other issue is UV.  epoxy will move differently than wood, and degrade in uv, but a finish over it that is UV protected should help a lot.  I think it looks great.  thanks for sharing the design.

I'd need some bigger pneumatic tires with the ground around here Doc, it would have to be substantial. 
 As for the epoxy, there is little exposed epoxy are on this one, mostly crack fills so I'm not sure that will be an issue. On my test table I have some bigger surface areas and that has shown an issue yet. But I haven't seen that in 8 months, so maybe by now?
 We try, we learn, we move on.

[doc henderson]

I am sure you will be fine.  I did house number on a mailbox post with a router, then painted, then filled with epoxy.  some have separated a bit, but after 7 years in locust.  but that is like pouring in mold.

[thecfarm]

That table almost looks like you know what you are doing.  ;)
Doc thinks it looks good, I know it looks good.  :D  :D 

[Old Greenhorn]

Yup, it's getting there and it will do. I'm sure it will hold up ok.
 Ray, I think I am getting there.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well ending another day wiped out. Cool today, beautiful in fact, weather wise. I didn't sleep well last night and had the wife wake me before 5 when she was headed out. My 'flipper' helper was coming by at either 6:30 or 7:30 and I didn't know which. Turned out to be 7:30 but I was out in the shop before 7 and he came by at 7:30 and we flipped the top. I put the legs on and it is looking better.


 

I had hoped today was finish coats so it would have a few days to harden up. So I light sanded everything and wanted to put a thin coat on. I used the can I had from the last project that was thinned out. It worked OK, but after it sat for 10 minutes, this happened:




It went right down the centerline where the wood density is softer. Just a bunch of alligator skin.   




I also had one odd spot on one of the benches, same thing. No idea why. Must have been the other epoxy. If I had my normal timeline (whenever) I would have let it dried and sanded it off. But I am still pushing and hoping to get it done quick. (bad plan, I know) So I took a scraper and peeled the bad spots so at least it would dry quicker.
 I just came in after going out and putting some fresh urethane on both the table and the bench in the bad spots. I had scraped it to clean wood and will need to build it up again.  I am hoping it is hard in the morning and I can sand it and maybe get another clean coat on. But I am pressed for time. I have to do a tree job tomorrow starting at 8am, so getting this done before I leave will be tight. I know I am pushing too hard against the physics, but I gotta try. The bench I can work on and fix it, the table top might take a lot of sanding and new coats to make it right. I might have blown my deadline.
 Tomorrow is another day, I guess I will hit it hard and do my best.

[WDH]

Just like in sawmilling, the easy part is the cutting and the challenging part is all the handling, stacking, drying, and planing, whereas in woodworking, the sanding and finishing is the challenging part.  It is much easier to build the project than it is to get that perfect finish.  

[Old Greenhorn]

Yeah Danny, finishing continues to be a challenge. It's the 80/20 rule. 80% of the work is in the last 20% of the job. I think I am back on track now, but lost a couple of days.

Today was a full day. Out in the shop around 6:30 and I sanded the one bench and I tried to work on the table top, but its still soft. I sanded, pealed and scraped as much as I could and left it to dry up some more. I put a coat of finish on the bench and that is coming along OK.

Then I hitched up the trailer and headed off to the tree job. Had an 18-20" ERC that was blown over in the ice storm, It was leaning on a 6" maple and the maple, when I cut it, would tend into the screened porch on the house. So I roped it to ensure a safe swing, but when I cut it, it turned out it was hung in the cedar top. So I threw another rope higher up and we managed to pull it and let it roll away from the house. Easy peasey. No pictures of that, just simple work. None of the cedar before cutting either, more plain work. But you can see for this photo that the tree was aimed at the far corner of the house and the concern is that it's a screened porch and the branches would make a mess of the screens.



 

I actually cut two trees off that uproot, the ERC was in the yard pointing east, and the maple pointing west which went out into the rough, which I cut into 18" long rounds for removal 'whenever' just to clean it up.


 

 I got some fair logs out of it to mill up in the coming weeks. So not a bad job. Nobody got hurt and it's all cleaned up. The landowner lives it London or some such place right now.



 

I will say it was a bear to get those logs 60' or so to the trailer and loaded by hand. All we had was a peavey, a couple of hookeroons, and two guys. My arms are on fire from the pine sap of a couple of branches I had to trim off an EWP and maybe from the cedar too, I dunno. Part of the job these days.

After dinner I will go check the table again. Tomorrow: more sanding and finishing and unload the trailer down at the mill. Unloading will be easier than loading, I am sure. ;D

[Nebraska]

Looks like some nice cedar, you will get some pretty stuff out of it. Hope you enjoy sawing it.

[Spike60]

Is there some kind of a deadline with the table? Never a good thing when working against the clock "inspires" you to do things ahead of when they are ready to be done. If you get stuck there for "table turner" during the day, call the store and if it's not busy, it ain't a big deal to run down and help you give it a flip. I need some practice not being there with the upcoming retirement/closing at the end of the year.

[Old Greenhorn]

Well the deadline is mostly in my head Bob, driven by external forces. This is for one of Bill's clients up to Traver Hallow way. He has told me they are grumbling about getting it and he is making polite hints that we need to get it moving for several weeks (albeit I have been trying to get him to decide on which slabs we were using and how long the thing would be. We didn't get the slabs pulled until 6 days ago. So I think I have been rocking along here. The other issue is this thing fills both bays of my shop and I had to leave the Mule parked outside. Lastly, I have two sets of legs I have been tripping over since May I would like to use and move out. I have a second table to build after this one for Bill also and we are playing the 'which slabs' game again.
 Time wise, I am leaving for VT next Wednesday until the 10th, then leave again for GF on the 12th and return on the 18th. So Half of July is shot already. I will have to hit the ground running when I get back.

Thanks for the offer to run out, you are welcome here anytime, but that's a long run for a 2 minute task. I have Bailey stopping in as he passes to and from the yard. Right now I am past that stage, as the top is mounted and I am just trying to get the finish right on the top. Lets see how today goes.

Nebraska, yeah I should get some good project wood. This one is green and I am not sure how long it will take to dry. I am trying to think of something to make that would be best use of the wood. That butt log has a lot of issues between the rot hole and all the cracks from the growth fissures. I get what I get and I'll be happy. Got paid to drop the tree(s) and still keep the logs.

[doc henderson]

ERC lobulations! :D :D :D

[Old Greenhorn]

Maybe my mind is in a weird place at the moment Doc, but that's just weird, even for you. :D
 Did you have something particular in mind, or is my definition of 'Lobule' in error? ;D

[Nebraska]

My experience  with it is seems to dry the fastest of any wood I've sawn. Although no scientific comparison has been made and it is pure conjecture on my part. It's more fun to saw with a manual mill than most other woods, at least it's easier on my body.   Hope that finish starts behaving.

[Old Greenhorn]

That's been my limited experience too Nebraska. I am hoping for some fall/winter build projects.

 I just came in from sanding and lying down another coat. It seems to be behaving properly so far. If it turns out well, it might be my last coat.  Then I have to figure out how to put the benches on. That is, which way they will face, which side is 'up' and how far in to set them. I may need an onsite consult for this last step.

[WDH]

One man's lobulations are another man's fluting  (not the musical kind but the lobulatory kind)  :D.