Swingers what do you think...?

[sigidi]

I was recently talking to a "senior swinger" and he was recommending putting log supports at the very end of the log rather than about a foot in from the end.

His explanation was bringing them in from the ends allows the log to 'pivot' on them and thus making any log movement worse. He went on to say it's better to leave the tree on ground and slice it up, then flip ya leftover onto the next log, once you have a clean deck.

Any thoughts?

[populus]

We use log supports primarily for orientation.  We want the best opening face dead level with the saw, so we use our boom truck and log supports to get the orientation right. We rarely cut anything small, so movement is not a big problem. I don't see how moving the log supports out a couple feet would make much difference.  As for flipping the dog board, we might do it for high value species, but usually the time involved is not worth it. If we use log supports, there isn't much left in the dog board anyway.  Of course, my experience is pretty limited - we've only been swinging for 4 months, have cut about 20 MBF. My answer might be different a year from now!

[Hokiemill]

Sigidi, not sure I understand the "pivot" thought.  The only movement I've encoutered has been the log rotating because there is more load on one edge, with the load being either dead weight from leaving some wood for rigidity or load from the actual milling.  In my rotating logs, there is no fulcrum.  Besides, by having the bunks in from the ends some, I don't have to be so precise with bunk placement and log moving.  When I'm moving logs around by hand and peavey, I'm just glad to get them up on the bunks, nevermind having them located to within +/- 4 or 5 inches along their length. ;D

As for cutting on the ground - it doesn't work so well for me.  I don't have much in the way of auxiliary equipment so the slab that gets left on ground has to be man-handled and that's no fun.  It's easier for me to move wood in log form (rolling with my peavey), so I prefer to get it up on bunks and leave as little slab as possible.  One sidenote:  my bunks have 7" wide by 2" deep notches.  These worked great for some logs in the 18-24" range that I milled - was able to leave a slab that was pretty much nothing but bark.  However, when we milled a 13" log on those same bunks, the log sat further down in the notch and a much bigger slab was left - could've easily gotten one more 1" board out of the slab.  When making the bunks I looked at making the notches 5" wide but that looked way too small.  Not so.  5" notches will work great for logs in the ~16" and less range.  Sorry for the off-topic yapping.

[Fla._Deadheader]

  Not a swinger, but, I understand what Sig said. The log bunks, being closer together, would tend to "swivel" the log, whereas being at the very ends, would more "secure" the logs. Sounds like good advice, provided you can still "level" the log the way ya want.  8) ;D ;D

[Ianab]

I usually put my bunks in a foot or so from the log ends. Seems to support the bottom slab better that way. If the bunks are too far apart the middle of the slab seems to wobble and sag more as you cut the last few boards. I guess it depends what you are cutting as well.
Big logs I cut on the ground, with some wedges to prevent it rolling, as far down as the mill goes then flip the slab aside and resaw it later. It's just easier than wresting big logs. Small logs are best up on the bunks although I often flip those and resaw to get one large slab or board from each log.

Ian

[sigidi]

Well fella's, as you may know I've come into some free logs(https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php?topic=11540.0)
and obviously my mind is ticking over with this info as to wether it will be better to do things this way??

[Timburr]

I was recently talking to a "senior swinger" and he was recommending putting log supports at the very end of the log rather than about a foot in from the end.

His explanation was bringing them in from the ends allows the log to 'pivot' on them and thus making any log movement worse.

This mainly applies to small or short logs i.e logs without any weight. Larger/ longer logs need a considerable leverage moment to pivot them. Saying that I still bunk all my logs to a foot plus, because of the reasons above. It is adviseable to feed the head cautiously when the weight of the stick diminishes, to combat movement. If you are aware of movement you mill accordingly.

I mill a lot of small diam. softwood (6'' +) . My log bunks are 7'' square with 4 × 4''w, 1'' d slots on one face 1 foot apart, the opposite face has 2 slots 7'' × 2" , 2 ' 6'' apart for the larger logs. As you can see I like to stage and mill several logs at a time. I am very production orientated. The clean faces I use wedges to dog a log. The make it easier to slide into position for taper. Wedge design is very conducive to log movement and will jiggleout if wrong. The best wedge is a short stick about 2'' diam, cut at about 30º and hammered between log and bunk with the end grain towards the bunk:- the endgrain has a higher friction and smaller area so the pressure is greater on the bunk. I've tried allsorts and find this to be best.

Big trees are milled on the ground using chunky wedges. The remaining slab is then lifted onto bunks,the mill reset and sawn out. But only if there is grade still left, otherwise its chucked. I try to put the rubbish on the bottom, but not always possible.

Hope this helps.   

Regards   Tim

[Vermonter]

The closer the skids are to the end of the log, the more you have to move the log to align it with the mill.  This really shows on the long (30'+) stock.
I gave up on notches about a year ago.  I use 8" x 12" spruce skids.  I can flip them either way, 8" high or 12" high, as around here there is seldom enough flat space to set a logpile and a mill.  For small logs, (8-12") I use wedges similar to yours, and just flatten the top of the log, taking off one slab.  I then roll the log over, and after a bit of experience, I seldom, if ever have a log move, except when I'm sawing in the pouring rain, and that's usually a good excuse to quit.  This is much faster than messing with notches and wedges.  You can line up the log with your first vertical pass, as it draws a line at least as straight as a lazer on the top of the log.  Do as much sawing in the vertical if you can, and if you are sawing cants, leave the cant in place until you cut the rest of the vertical cuts on the right side of the log. 
The folks from NZ also told me that you can work the skids with the bottom of the blade, and then flip that bottom slab over on skids that will be even with the mill.  I seldom sit in one place long enough to do that.   When I set up on a log that is on the ground, the log sits lower in the bunks, so it often pays to lift the last slab up onto the next log.  You can also use the last slab as your bunks if you use the flatten and flip trick.