Bucking on steep slopes with end bind

Jim Chance · June 13, 2021, 09:12:36 AM

Can someone share suggestions for an easy way to buck a log on a steep slope with a lot of end bind? I do trail maintenance work. On trails that are running parallel to the contours I often encounter logs running straight down the slope across the trail. Cutting them is not a problem, but a lot of times the uphill part slides a little and binds everything back up and I can't clear the cut piece out of the way. Is there a trick to this?

btulloh · June 13, 2021, 09:26:20 AM

Plastic wedges are your friend. Insert into kerf when the bar gets deep enough to allow the wedge behind it. Driving it in when your close to the bottom will even lift the log of the ground so you can cut through without sticking the bar in the ground.

mike_belben · June 13, 2021, 09:44:43 AM

yes, cut into the compression wood deep enough to insert a wedge hard, then cut from the other side.

or take out pie cuts to allow the tension to relax. youre just making clearance angles for the bar kerf so that as the tree starts to move, the bar is being pinched by air instead of wood.

Skeans1 · June 13, 2021, 09:58:50 AM

How big is the wood and how long is your bar? These are huge factors that play a role when bucking timber on steep slopes. When I do it I'll cut the compression side first but will put a little bit of a face into that side then finish the tension side.

btulloh · June 13, 2021, 10:04:34 AM

Yes, good points mike on the elaboration. When the log is bridged and you can undercut it's different than when the log is on the ground. And pie cuts are good to use at times too. As always, it depends on the specifics of the situation.

Jim Chance · June 13, 2021, 03:39:50 PM

It is not the cutting I am having trouble with, it is getting the cut piece out. Let's say the slope is 45 degrees, the trail is on the contour and the log is at a right angle to the trail going straight up and down the slope. And let's say the trail crosses the log about in the middle of the log and is 3 feet wide. I make my first cut on one side of the trail using wedges. I knock the wedges out and the cut closes. Then I make my second cut on the other side of the trail, and again the cut closes when I knock the wedges out. The best I can tell the cuts close because the uphill log is sliding down. I can not remove my 3 foot piece because it is jammed up.

Skeans1 · June 13, 2021, 03:52:31 PM

Quarter the tree across the hill when working on steep ground it's safer to work with especially when bucking.

Thomasjw4 · June 13, 2021, 04:19:57 PM

Dont cut straight across the log, cut at a 45 or so in the direction you want it to roll out

btulloh · June 13, 2021, 04:29:53 PM

Yes, that. Or work from the highest point down so there's nothing to trap the round.

Steep ground like that makes everything difficult. You have to move all the cut pieces up to the trail by hand? Then what? Haul away in a ??.

Jim Chance · June 13, 2021, 08:57:04 PM

We don't fell the trees, we just clear the ones that block trail. We push the part we cut out of the way and down hill and leave it. We are not harvesting the wood, just clearing the trail for hikers. I am going to try cutting at an angle and see if that works. Seems like it would. Thanks for the suggestions.

btulloh · June 13, 2021, 09:34:41 PM

Well good luck with it. Sounds like it can challenging work. Do you carry a peavey or cant hook to give some mechanical advantage on those rounds? Seems like a good tool to have along.

Where are theses trails located? Sounds like some rugged terrain.

Jim Chance · June 14, 2021, 06:17:26 AM

I work in NC and Ga, the southern tip of the Blue Ridge Mountains. A lot of it is so steep that moving around off trail is a challenge. We usually do not carry a peavy due to weight though sometimes I wish I had one. Sometimes, mostly to drop a hung tree, we bore cut a hole and stick a sapling in it to roll it.

mike_belben · June 14, 2021, 10:15:27 AM

if you just keep cutting pie cookies with unparallel, opposing angles, sooner or later you should be able to knock a chunk out like a vertebrae. make em small enough not to work hard and kick em over the hill.

reride82 · June 14, 2021, 03:38:45 PM

In this circumstance, I've just cut the log at a 45 degree angle perpendicular to each other, so that as the the uphill portion pushes down it wedges the cut piece away. You can make them parallel if you like, but then the pieces just try to slide past each other.

Levi

OlegreyCowboy · November 05, 2024, 09:13:17 AM

Jim,
I found this site looking to answer the same question. I am a BCHSC volunteer trying to clean trails after Helene. This weekend working at Enoree District on Buncombe trails. And like you I have not found a fool-proof technique.
Wedges seem to always be the solution, but I noticed that softer woods just seem to sponge around the wedge and still bind the bar. I try pie cutting and on the steeper stuff before I can get clear - boom, it has the bar.
Too many solutions offered talk about tension side and compression side. That is not helpful on these somewhat steep slopes. It is just end bind.

I have considered but not tried the 45 degree cut. Maybe my next effort out. My concern is it will still pinch the bar. Maybe using wedges while doing the 45 degree may be the magic.
Mike

beenthere · November 05, 2024, 01:37:45 PM

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.

Have to ask what BCHSC might stand for ??

The 45 degree cut is not considered a "professional" cut, but more of a green-horn one.

OlegreyCowboy · November 05, 2024, 05:49:10 PM

Quote from: beenthere on November 05, 2024, 01:37:45 PMWelcome to the Forestry Forum.

Have to ask what BCHSC might stand for ??

The 45 degree cut is not considered a "professional" cut, but more of a green-horn one.

BeenThere,
You have me chuckling. I did think it odd the 45 degree cut was something I only saw in videos of folks felling in ways that could end their lives.

I'm sorry, the BCHSC is Back Country Horsemen of South Carolina. When Jim Chance started this thread, his work sounded like what we do in the USFS to keep horse and some multiuse trails open.
We are only making a dent in opening trails after Helene in the USFS District trails here in SC. And like Jim described, these rascals are creeping downhill. Those long enough and big enough diameter that I seem to spend a lot of time unbolting heads, putting on an extra bar and chains
, and going again. Pie cuts were not helping either.
Either I have to find a more clever approach or develop one.

Suggestions?
Thanks!!
Mike K

Hilltop366 · November 05, 2024, 06:13:18 PM

Not much experience with steep slopes but when cutting blow downs, since I have figured out to treat the downed tree the same as a standing tree I have had less issues. I think of tensions in the downed tree like a lean on a standing tree and notch the compressed side first then the back cut on the tension side. If I got it right the back cut should open as I am cutting.

With the issue of trees on a steep slope it would seem that cutting the lower side first and using a come along to get one piece pulled over a bit so when cutting the upper side it can't jamb in the top would help.

Stay safe!

Riwaka · November 06, 2024, 05:46:51 AM

It is often appropriate to look around the area you are cutting trees to see what answers other people are using on your type of trees. If new to tree cutting work out the compression and tension before you start cutting and allow for surprises in wind blow.
Have a look at Bjarne Butler bucking on youtube.

Some tree fellers take a bucket of wedges with them when felling/ bucking on slopes with some tree types.

Jim Chance · Reply #19 - Re: Bucking on steep slopes with end bind

Hi Mike,

We are almost neighbors as I live in Highlands, NC and can walk to Ellicott Rock.

This post is a few years old and I have made some progress. Cutting at an angle like 45 degrees helps but you usually have to do it a few times until the upper part quits sliding. If you think one side of the log will go up and the other go down you can cut at an angle to vertical. If you guess right this works better. If not, at least you know what to do on your next cut. another thing you can do is go above the trail and cut the log so as to get the end of the higher part in the ground which usually stops it from coming down. Another is to free the downhill side of the tree so it will slide away when cut.

Helene has made a mess. We are averaging about half or three quarters of a mile per crew per day. We have one tangle of trees that has three crew days in it and it is not totally clear.

If you can carry it on a horse think about getting one of those Maasdam rope pullers, a recovery ring and a couple of trees straps. You can put 3,000#s of pull on a log which gives you a lot more options.

My thanks to you, the BCH, and all the other volunteers who keep the trails open.